Rollabind Bulletin Board

Hi.

OK, rollabind devotees, check me on this one.

You have a piece of heavy chipboard or paperboard, maybe the inexpensive backing crafters use when they're making their own picture frames (I've got one that has a stand on the back, can go horizontal or vertical, bought for like $2).

You take your very smallest discs and cut them in half, carefully (perhaps with a dremel tool and vice?), so you end up with half circles.

You hot glue your half-discs the recommended width apart along the edges of your board and also down the center (depending on the size paper you use).

When finished, you have a Rollabind Bulletin Board (with stand) you can use for visual display of your notes, tasks, etc.

The rings, having been sliced, will only hold a few pages each, but it's a bulletin board so it wouldn't have to hold many, really.

I suppose you could punch your board instead of cutting the discs in half, but that assumes the board will fit in the puncher. You could cut holes with a craft knife, but that's just yukky if we're talking about 30 or 40 holes.

Is this a moderately useful idea or just stupid? I can't decide. I used to use a board like this (not rolla, a ribbon board) to stick up all the things I had to do that day, set their priorities, etc. Then I kept the display in front of me so I wouldn't forget what was supposed to get done, and in what order.

The smallest rings I have hold about 1/4" stack of paper. Cutting them in half would reduce the capacity by over half, but that's still 10 sheets of paper or so.

I could put my month view on the board along with the day schedule, the individual tasks, any reminders I need for processes I need to follow, blank forms.. At the end of the day just peel the necessary stuff back off the board, stick it in the book, and go..

The more I think about this, the more I think it's an interesting concept.. But I can't decide if it would get used or just be another albatross. I have a lot of albatrosses from the last four months of planner hacking. DH is starting to notice the dollars here and dollars there. :)

shris

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Too complex, I think

How about just drilling holes in discs and mounting them on a dowel or string ?

-----------------------------------
"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

hmm

It sounds like a good idea but involves quite a bit of work. (I suppose it is important to point out that I have never actually worked with a Rollabind system.)

I was wondering if it might be easier to use a small bulletin board and push pins ( Blick Pins ). If you could find push pins with the heads the same size and the holes of your paper, you could slip them over the push pins. Then the card would be visible and if you needed fewer up one day or wanted to change the layout, it would be quite easy.

The down side of push pins would be the lack of holding power... I'm guessing the Rollabind assembly would allow a flip up type viewing style where the push pins would require more of a swing method.

Not sure if any of this will help you make a decision but I thought I would mention what came to mind while reading your post. :o)
♥---♥---♥
my artwork

Flip up

Hi.

The comments I'm seeing seem to assume the rings would end up on the TOP of the board, across the top in a row. This was not what I had in mind, though it would certainly work if you are a top-binder.

I'm a notebook-style binder, so my rings would run down the left, right, and center of the board. This would give me the 'cascading' view that folks seem to want with their 3x5s..showing the first inch of each page in a list running top to bottom..

Yeah, it would be quite a bit of work to set this up.

Drilling and mounting the rings on a dowel would give you the ability to have a left or right bind instead of a top bind, but you'd still have to glue the rings down so they didn't slide around unless you leave a backerboard in..so I don't think you'd save much there.

Eh, I'll probably let this one percolate for a while. I'm getting away from one-task-per-card just because it requires a big wad of cards, so maybe I won't need anything this elaborate. A set of binder clips on my current ribbon board would be a temporary solution that would give me a similar display..

shris

Habeas Corpus...

Quote: "I'm a notebook-style binder, so my rings would run down the left, right, and center of the board. This would give me the 'cascading' view that folks seem to want with their 3x5s..showing the first inch of each page in a list running top to bottom".

Shris, I am aghast at this latest outburst of paper pr0n candor... :D

Two suggestions:

1/ Cut the slots with a 'router' (The type kitchen fitters use to cut holes in worktops).

2/ Take another look a GTD. Your ideas are fantastic. However, you appear to be basing your entire system on Allen's 43 Folders/tickler concept which places artificial limits on your thinking. Just remember to keep an open mind until we have a body of evidence for or against it. :)

43 folders

Hi Sardonios.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Cutting the slots with a router would be interesting. There are several different ways to make that work, I think. :)

On basing my system on 43 folders, well, actually my system is based on Morgenstern's concept, not Allen's at all. Schedule is the driver for Morgenstern's concept, whereas Allen's is much more schedule-independent. Allen is 'do what you can do wherever you happen to be' in a way, and Morgenstern is 'plan your stuff to get done when you know you'll be there, don't worry about it until you get there, and don't take on more than will fit into your scheduled capabilities'..

The common points between the two are about knowing where/when a thing can be done, and having a good filing system that includes 43 folders and other stuff. Morgenstern is more focused on how long a thing will take to accomplish so you know how much will actually fit into your various time containers--thus adjusting your expectations of yourself and your container and developing the ability to accurately assess what you can do in a given block of time.

Personally, I am not inundated with more stuff to do than time to do it, most of the time--Allen is very well-suited to dealing with that. My problems include procrastination, having perfectionist tendencies, and lack of memory..I'm sure there's a few others, but they're not rising to the top right now. Anyway, Morgenstern's ideas about containerizing time helped me a lot with my procrastination when I first read the book last year. Also helped me adjust my expectations of just how much housework could get done in a one-hour block, and thus it helped me pare down my housework to-dos to the things I could accomplish. So it helped my sanity a lot.

Anyway, my memory sucks, so I probably will read GTD again this week. I started taking notes on Morgenstern's books so I'd have brief points to refer to, I need to do the same thing with Allen.

Eh, confessions.

There *are* artificial limits on my thinking. All of us 'plan' with the artificial limits we've imposed on ourselves. Most of the folks here use Allen to frame the situation. I have a slightly different bent, at least at the moment.

Anyway, my thinking has evolved hugely from one year ago. My planner last summer was a wooden box, now it's plastic coins. At the end of this year I may have changed even more. Dunno. Life is evolution. There is no such thing as 'stay the same'. :)

shris

As the Swift Flies - Tangent Musings...

Hi Shris

Thank you for sharing. I will have to take a closer look at Morgenstern's work, some of her key concepts sound interesting. I looked briefly at Covey, and his system is far to prescribed for me. Flylady appears to me rather patronising,. Although perhaps I misunderstood the 'kitchen sink' and 'Control Journal' references.

I can see how beneficial the blocking out of time is in the fight against procrastination.. May I ask do you every find a task so overwhelming or boring you avoid starting it, and if so do you use a different method or stick with 'time compartments'? As you may have noticed, procrastination pops up almost as often as rolla discs. ;) Procrastination and perfectionism are often linked, although you probably know that already. Accepting when a project is 'good enough' to fulfil the task at hand can be difficult. However,. if we cannot let go how can we ever hope to progress to the next level? The educator Kurt Hahn's had an interesting idea, later echoed in an episode of Star Trek: "Make the children meet with triumph and defeat". Sometimes learning how to fail with good grace is as important as learning to win.

Lack of memory: Memory is a strange thing, quite unlike Allen's computer model. I remember in another thread you mentioned you had your 'bloods' done and there was no diabetes or thyroid problems. Obviously I do not have a full history. However, from what you have told us (the D*I*Y community) stress and/or lack of sleep seem the most likely cause. Sleep we have discussed, as for stress, research has shown that writing down strong emotions episodes, love, fear, anger, etc. can actually improve working memory. Although, depending on the feelings. One may just prefer to forget. :S

Quote: "I probably will read GTD again this week. I started taking notes on Morgenstern's books so I'd have brief points to refer to, I need to do the same thing with Allen".

I agree taking notes rather than rereading or trying to memories is the way to go. I find my eight pages of GTD notes far less tedious than reading the whole GTD book again. Anyway you have me wanting to read Morgenstern now. :) Joking aside, gurus offer us a viewpoint. Dogmatically following someone else's path is a road to despair. It is nice to have a community of open minded paper pr0n fiends to debate with. :)

"My planner last summer was a wooden box, now it's plastic coins"...

Yes I remember you saying. :) One of the more fasinating aspects, for me at least, is the way you and some of the others actually make working prototypes. Almost all mine are on paper as I am rarely happy with anything I manage to make or purchase.The one exception was my switch from bound diary to Filofax many years ago.

You mention bulk, is there a reason that you use on item per card rather than several and cross them out as each is completed? With the exception of my diary (calendar) All my templates (Okay, D*I*Y Templates masterfully shrunk down) are on the right for at a glance viewing. When one is full I flip it over and use the blank side as a brain dump. ('Notes' to Allen's followers :P) Again it remains on the right. I find this reduces bulk and at the same time makes for easier reading. :)

Wow..

Hi Sardonios. :)

Thanks for the many thoughts and questions. :)

I read Flylady's website and tried a bit of her stuff. Her method is good, but her cheerleading is too sticky sweet for me. I'm also not *that* chaotic anymore (CHAOS = Can't Have Anyone Over Syndrome, aka, my house is too messy for anyone to see it). At the time, I needed some help in the arena, and Flylady got me started in the right direction.

However, an interesting point to note is that Flylady was inspired by two other ladies' writings--the Sidetracked Home Executives (SHE's), Pam Young and Peggy Jones. I read their stuff too, and that was MUCH less sticky-sweet and was the basis for the wooden box and the one-task-per-card concept. They were focused on using a methodology to get the house and everything in it into order--time management is a small portion of what they talk about, but the time boxing is in there. Anyway, I tried their method of organizing the home-cleaning and home-management tasks. It's a file box with 3x5 cards, where you put one task on each card, estimate how long it takes, decide how often it will be done, and use 43 folders in the card box to file the cards so that the tasks come up on the right day.

After I'd done that method with housework for a while, I decided to try to apply it to work life too, since I was forgetting stuff and was embarrassed more than once. It worked beautifully. I bought a wood box 6x6x4 to hold my active stuff and a few spare cards, and a snap-together box about twice as long to hold the done stuff and more spares.

Anyway, the reason for one task, one card is so you can re-file, rearrange, sort, throw out, update, etc. any given task without messing up anything else. I had color coded cards for different things, but they were plain cards, not forms. Some cards were for recurring tasks, and their frequency was marked in the upper left corner. The task was listed in the center of the card, and the time estimate in the upper right. Because it's ALL 43 folders (and a few project files), putting too many tasks on a card threatens to mess up the schedule or get the card all dirty with scratchouts and whatnot. :)

Anyway, I got into Morgenstern's work through her Organizing From the Inside Out book. I have a very small house, two 2-year-old toddlers and all their toys (several sets of 1000-piece worlds, etc.), and a husband who has packrat tendencies with his technology stuff and tools. I have art supplies and bits from a couple of now-defunct crafty businesses and a library of paperbacks. I needed to organize so as not to suffocate under collapsed piles of ...stuff.

From her Organizing book, which I loved, I moved to her Time Management from the Inside Out book, which I also love. She had illustrative anecdotes from a dozen or so different clients who each had different difficulties. I found useful bits in every chapter, though my life doesn't fit everything she wrote. Some folks think the anecdotes are a waste of page space, but I found them illuminating and reinforcing. Anyway, still using a wooden box at this point, I did her time map exercise and had an a-ha moment.

Since I had started from the house maintenance angle, I will illustrate the a-ha moment with that concept. When you own a house, there are a lot of things you have to do to maintain it. Everything from sweeping and mopping to washing the vinyl siding to cleaning out the dryer vent and vacuuming the bathroom vent fan, washing the windows, etc. You get the idea. There are things you think about frequently, like sweeping and vacuuming, and stuff you don't do as often, like washing the curtains and refinishing the wood floors. It's a huge list of stuff, unique to every house. And most of it has to get done on a recurring basis. The SHE's method said to write all of these tasks down and set their recurrence, and then when the card comes up, you do it. OK. Simple concept. They also had a 'forgive yourself' clause where you just re-file an item in it's next regularly scheduled day if you don't get to it today. Fine. But there's still too much for one person to do (when that one person has two toddlers, a day job, and interests other than housecleaning). Morgenstern's time map exercise forces you to determine exactly how much time in a week you'll devote to something like housecleaning so you can balance your time between all the various roles you want to play. So, my time map says I can spend at most a half hour in the weekday mornings, an hour in the evenings, and a couple hours each weekend day (if the kids are cooperative) doing the housecleaning. How much actually fits into those blocks? Not every task I had on my list, I'll tell you that!

So what's the fix? Well, there are a few:
* change the recurrence of some of the tasks so they're less frequent.
* decide not to do some of the tasks (at least until the kids get older)
* try to get DH to do more of the tasks (he already does the yard, the trash, the vehicles, the appliances..)
* change the windows of time I have available somehow

Anyway, my fix was to get rid of some of the items on the list. I did not weed the garden at all last year. I think I cleaned the furnace filter twice or three times instead of monthly. I didn't wash the car at all. You get the idea. This is the a-ha moment, that you don't have to do it all, and even if you tried there are some things you just won't get to. You have to look at time as a fixed resource. I don't think of it as limited, just fixed.

I'm not sure Allen gets into this idea in his book. I don't remember. It's great that you've got everything written down on your lists, but what if what you want on your lists really truly isn't going to fit into your packed life? What if your expectations make you feel guilty that you can't get to everything on your list as quickly as you want? What if you really truly don't have time to clean the furnace filter once a month?

The other thing that differentiates Morgenstern (and the SHEs and Flylady) and Allen is deciding WHEN you're going to be in each context. Morgenstern, with the time mapping idea, tells you to decide WHEN in a week you're going to be in your @errands context. With Allen, you seemingly just make a list of stuff you're going to do when you're running errands, but I don't recall him telling you it would be better to make a fixed plan for errands on a regular basis. There are many days when I don't get out of the house at all--what if I need to pick up a prescription when I'm out, but I don't get out that week? Morgenstern says to set aside a specific time period for errands each week (or so) so you know WHEN you're going to get those prescriptions. That also, by extension, tells you when you have to phone the pharmacy to trigger the refill..Allen would just say to put a call on the call list and a 'pick up the prescription' on the errand list after the call had been made. Tell me if I'm misunderstanding Allen--like I said, my memory stinks. :)

Anyway, getting back to your other questions.

Memory for me is damaged by lack of sleep. This also affects my energy level through the day and thus my motivation. So writing everything down gets me through most of the memory problems, but it doesn't help the motivation.

A lot of my work is writing--writing manuals, writing specifications, writing email, writing presentations. Some of these are fairly important, big ugly documents. One thing that helps me get over the crippling perfectionism is to churn out a draft and let someone look at it. I am old enough now that I have discovered that my ideas and writings do not match my boss' requirements about 75% of the time. So there's no point in trying to get something perfect out of the gate--it will be perfectly wrong. So I churn out a draft, zits and all, and give it to the boss to read. He comes back with his ideas, and we perfect the thing together. Quicker for me, less stressful, and easier on the ego. It also helps me get over the motivation hump because there's less riding on the thing I'm creating. Don't build someone a house and then show it to them, draw them a picture and ask them if that's what they wanted first, THEN build it. Smaller steps.

One of the things Morgenstern talks about is finding your own rhythm in a day. Do you have more concentration in the morning, the afternoon, or the evening? Then you arrange your time blocks to take best advantage of your tendencies through the day. I am very alert in the morning, so writing is good in the morning. After lunch I need to be coaxed back to work with something easy, so my grunt tasks go there. I prefer to check my email first thing in the morning so I know if my day is going to be overset by something important and urgent, or if it's just a normal day. For other people that might be instant death to a schedule every day because they get lost in their email and try to fix everything right away. I don't get that much email. :)

When energy level is the problem, there's really no help for it. I do find, though, that I am still able to do 'grunt' tasks when I'm unmotivated at work. I have some administrative tasks that amount to pushing a series of buttons repetitively 1000 times. These I can do whether I'm sleepy or not. It's hard to do real writing when I'm tired, though. I can toss out a few ideas, maybe bullet points I want to cover, but I just can't get over the hump to write the full monty when I'm lacking sleep. It's just not there.

I generally do not have trouble figuring out what the next action for any given project is. There are a couple of exceptions, but I can't get into that on the internet. Anyway, I did learn some things from Allen--some of the smaller points of his methodology are valuable to me. But I reread the first chapter of his book last night and I kept thinking to myself "This isn't me he's describing." Very strange.

Anyway, the bulk thing: a wood box isn't very portable, but the system worked very well for me. I wanted portability, especially after reading Morgenstern. So I'm changing my system as I go through these format iterations. The original was 'one thought, one card' for a specific reason, and now as I change the format the structure changes the reasons. It's still a work in progress. I hate writing stuff down more than once, but I hate even more having to fish for the next to-do item amongst a list of already done stuff. :)

Just a note of defense for Flylady. She's not patronizing, she's cheerleading. She's trying to give hope and encouragement to people who've let their packrat tendencies overcrowd their homes to a dangerous degree. It's all 'you can do it'. To sticky sweet for me, but I understand it. The kitchen sink is the place you start because it's small, easy to maintain, and very visible. The Control Journal is the household book of everything. Basically a household planner system for people who haven't figured out how to make one. She's teaching grown-up children how to get their houses and lives back in order and for some folks it takes a *lot* of cheerleading.

OK, enough. :)
shris

Thank you, shris

Thanks for giving me the nudge I needed to move Time Management from the Inside Out to the front of my reading queue. I have the open-schedule problem, where there is always time to do one more thing "before" work, and adding some schedule structure to my day may really help me with my procrastination problem.

--
flexiblefine
Do you procrastinate?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheNowHabit/

One last thing before..

Hi.

Morgenstern deals specifically with the "one more thing before I.." problem. I can't remember if it's a whole chapter, but it's close. If that's an issue you deal with, she's definitely got some strategies for you.

The time map exercise is very illuminating, even if you don't decide to actually DO time boxing, it is an eye-opener.

shris

Amazing Stuff...

Wow is an understatement, this is amazing, Shris. You really ought to write a guest piece.. :)

Thank you for explaining where Flylady is coming from. Looking at the kitchen sink from a 'house management' perspective not only makes perfect sense, it helps to remind me Okham's Razor is not just there to shave Steve's odd-toed ungulate with.. ;) Personally, the thought of Allen smiling benevolently as I empty my life into an in-tray, fills me with the same revulsion and yet I do understand how overwhelmed life can seem.

The SHEs methodology sounds very interesting. I will check the library for Young and Jones work too although it may be to specialised for my needs.

Quote: "After I'd done that method with housework for a while, I decided to try to apply it to work life too"...

I find this interesting. From my viewpoint I see someone with four jobs: Housekeeper/manager; groundswoman; primary caregiver and tech writer(?). The trick is keeping all the balls in the air while still finding time to play. From what you tell us here you are carving and amazing path through the wilderness of productivity...

Quote: "Some folks think the anecdotes are a waste of page space, but I found them illuminating and reinforcing"...

I like anecdotes too. It is sometimes hard to get a concept across, especially if a guru insists on trying to share some profound wisdom, or simple using words that they do not understand the meaning of. Like a picture, a good anecdote can actual illustrate a point far better than reams of jargon.

Quote: "It's great that you've got everything written down on your lists, but what if what you want on your lists really truly isn't going to fit into your packed life?"... "What if you really truly don't have time to clean the furnace filter once a month?"

This is where my problem lies. According to Allen; time specific 'actions' are entered into a calendar, all other actions get listed. No priority. This is great... until I look down at my list and instead of 250-300 next actions, I have over a thousand. :O No problem I simple defer most of my personal stuff and anything not needed in the next three months... New problem, a friend from abroad wants to stay, worse he has his wife and son with him. All none essentials are defer yet again. Now it is anything not required in the next two months. The amorphous beast known as 'Stuff' is growing daily consuming all planner templates in its path.... GTD's main concepts work well .However it is not the complete picture. I will definitely checkout Morgenstern, and see if she can fill in the gaps. :)

Quote: "I did learn some things from Allen--some of the smaller points of his methodology are valuable to me. But I reread the first chapter of his book last night and I kept thinking to myself "This isn't me he's describing.""

Funny, I thought the same. In my case I assumed it was written from a business person's prospective and ignored the style. As with any self help book, I take the ideas as a starting point then try to build on them. :)

Guest piece

Haha..

I am going to write a guest piece. That was actually the nudge to take notes on Morgenstern, so I wouldn't get the details wrong. I actually do plan to write about her book since I found it so helpful.

On the subject of roles, there's an exercise in JM's book about determining your core areas of life--I think of them as Roles because I read Covey years ago and the word stuck in my head. Right now I'm trying to balance Work, Me, Family, and Housekeeper. I have no friends or other commitments, so those four really are it at this point. Might expand in the next year or two if I can get my butt out of the house occasionally. :)

Groundskeeper is entirely owned by DH at this point, even though I used to help with the gardening I haven't done anything really since the kids were born. Next year I might be able to do more since the kids will help me spend time outside. We'll see. Gotta do something about the oregano because it'll choke the entire bed it's in (a bad thing for thyme, chives, and blueberries).

Anyway, the Sidetracked Home Executives book is a pretty quick read, especially if you don't plan to actually create the system they describe. But it's got some core ideas that are valuable even if you're not trying to get your house in order.

When I read Flylady, there was also a lot of "this isn't me" going round in my head, but there was a kernel of "yeah, I do that" that kept me reading. When I read Allen, there was more 'no' than 'yes' but he still had value for me. I'm working on my 'inbox' concept and trying to decide if I even really *have* a someday maybe list percolating behind my eyebrows.

Funny thing--when you have no memory at all due to lack of sleep, stuff doesn't bug you. That is to say, I don't have that itchy thought when I'm trying to sleep that I really need to clean the catbox (or whatever). I can't remember that I should have done that, so it doesn't bother me. :) This is the chief reason why Allen doesn't describe me well. The brain dump to 'clear your head' isn't as much of an issue with me because most of the stuff I think of that I might want to do, I immediately forget. :)

If I prompt myself to try to remember stuff, then I can usually come up with something I need to/want to do, but if I don't get it written down, it's gone again in about 2 minutes flat. Catbox? What catbox? :)

Anyway, I don't have the huge lists because I can't remember anything long enough to write it down. But since you *do* have huge lists, you should definitely read JM's book. She's got stuff in there that you would find valuable.

At the very least, if you've decided you're going to postpone a certain class of tasks because of some circumstance in your life, JM gives you a strategy for getting it out of sight so it doesn't guilt you in the meantime. I love that part. Put that whole list of stuff in your 43 folders for, say, 2 months from now. Forget it until then, don't review it, don't worry over it. Forget it and give yourself permission to not think about it. When the two months are up, it will come back to you and you can decide then whether it's suddenly the right time for that list or not. Stick the whole project page in there, so you don't think of the topic AT ALL during any of your reviews until the timer beeps. :) It's very freeing.

Here's a thought. When you are cooking something in the oven (think turkey or pot roast or even cookies), you set the timer and you go away and do something else until the timer brings you back to that task. You don't sit there watching it, anxiously asking yourself if it's really cooking. You (usually) don't review it every minute all through the cooking time to make sure there's progress being made. The food can cook by itself, freeing you to go vacuum or chop a salad or do some laundry or whatever. When the timer dings, you'll come back, look at it, and decide whether it should come out or stay in longer.

I *love* this thought. Once I've made a decision about something's start date, it gets filed and I don't look at it again until that date. Shorter lists. Less brain clutter. No itching, no forgetting. The thought is there on the designated day, waiting for you.

*happy sigh* A practical use for my lack of memory! :)

shris
(this site is part of my ME time, but also serves the 'training' sub-role in my WORK area as well)

The Incredible Morphing Thread...

Quote: "I am going to write a guest piece".

Hurrah!

Quote: "Right now I'm trying to balance Work, Me, Family, and Housekeeper. I have no friends or other commitments, so those four really are it at this point".

I wrote a very rushed introduction to role theory amongst other things in a piece called In the Flow... Take it as a lesson on how not to start your articles. ;) Of more use to most people is Doug's Harmony Template. (Under the circumstances, best if you just ignore the rose shrubbery comment underneath.. :P)

Trying to get my house in order?. Lol. In my younger days I shared house as one does. As you can imagine people came and went freely and no-one was quite sure who the tenants were. At the time we had a very liberal fridge policy, eating other peoples food with the view to that which does not make us hallucinate, may just cure us. All was well until one day we found an old pot of jam with greeny-grey mould growing on it. Hidden behind it was an even mouldier Brie. Have you ever tasted mouldy Brie? Delicious. ;)

As for a someday maybe list. I haven't even started yet. My 'deferred list' are objectives/projects that have deadlines longer that two months away... :(

Quote: "I don't have that itchy thought when I'm trying to sleep that I really need to clean the catbox (or whatever). I can't remember that I should have done that, so it doesn't bother me".

Lol. My memory is fine. I have a problem keeping focus. For example: When we started you were a 'sexy rolla-board'. Now you are teacher. ;)

Quote: ..."the chief reason why Allen doesn't describe me well. The brain dump to 'clear your head' isn't as much of an issue with me because most of the stuff I think of that I might want to do, I immediately forget". :)

I think the brain dump is hilarious. Note taking actually helps one's memory. Fortunately it is a harmless idea. The piece on procrastination is of more concern. Alcohol gives one energy because it switch something off? Ludicrous. In very simplified terms the sugar give a temporary energy boost, 20 -30 minutes later the body's insulin will have restored the balance. Assuming of course one stops drinking. Actually the same thing will happen when I eat this delicious piece of chocolate... No Steve you cannot have a picture, use your imagination. ;)

With all due respect to Allen, I cannot really say it was any failure of GTD that caused my list to grow anymore than my gaining weight in the last two months. The problems started when I split up with my first partner of 14 years and I tried (very successfully) to avoid everything except work. Things finally exploded when my second partner exSWMBO cleared everything up. I have no idea where half my 'stuff' is, never mind have time to deal with it. :(

Quote: "this site is part of my ME time, but also serves the 'training' sub-role in my WORK area as well".

Me too. It gives me the chance to be 18 again (Steve is my role model :D ) without the risk of destroying my career and I get to improve my productivity skills at the same time. :)

Harmony

Hi.

In your article, Sardonios, and in the Harmony template and in various other places here and there, folks talk about roles as if there are only four. Spiritual, Physical, Mental and Social.

These roles are fine, but they don't fit me. Spiritual, for me, is not a role. It is an attribute or aspect of the things I do or think, but it's not a role. I think of Role as an actor would--I'm playing the role of the "Old Lady Who Lived in a Shoe," or I play the "Troll Under the Bridge" or the like. A role is a more concrete thing to me.

The roles I mentioned in my earlier post are actually mis-written. It should actually be "Employee, Me, Family Member, Housekeeper". None of these relates directly to the more generally accepted "Spiritual" aspect, but spirituality could be expressed in all of these roles that I play if I choose to do that.

I don't spend time devising how I'm going to nurture my spirituality or my mind or my body. Perhaps some of these things are suffering for that lack of planning perspective. But I have more direct concerns. I have to make sure I take care of being an employee or a Mommy or a wife or a housekeeper. These are the concrete things that receive my focus, this is how I think.

I would like a harmony insert that doesn't feature the little graphics to tell me what I'm supposed to focus on. Of course, I don't use the insert size at all because I've gone down to a quarter-page format now, but it's what I'd like if I *did* use a bigger size. :) I used to use Covey's Roles and Goals insert, but it spent space on those pesky four too. :) Morgenstern's time map exercise gave me insight into what my balance is right now, even if that's not the balance I'd rather have--without telling me what I'm supposed to be spending time on. I can do that myself. :)

Of course Allen isn't responsible for the excessive growth of your lists. Life conspires. Our assumptions contribute. Everyone around us contributes their two bits.

Here's a good resolution for folks who hate resolutions: I will not feel guilty this year about anything.

We all make decisions about what we will or won't do based on what we know and want and like. We make the best decisions we can at any given moment with the information we have at hand, so we should not feel guilty.

I made that resolution when my kids were born, and it feels really good.

shris

Thanks, shris

shris said:

We make the best decisions we can at any given moment with the information we have at hand, so we should not feel guilty.

Thanks, shris. This is a bit off-topic, but I lost my pet cockatiel yesterday and have been blaming myself a lot. Reading your sentence has helped me.
-Sarah

Guilt

Hi Sarah.

I have pet-related events in my own past that give me tremendous guilt and regret. But we can only do what we can do. When new information comes in we can adjust, but we can't change what we knew yesterday.

One of my cats will have a bare patch on her neck forever because of a bad collar. I didn't know it was a bad collar until I took it off and realized there was no fur left beneath. Every time I look at her, that bare patch stabs me. If I had known sooner that it was pulling out her hair, I would have removed it immediately. But I didn't know--in part because I didn't look. Awful.

Another pet cat was run over and killed (by an anonymous person) in part because of our decision not to have another indoor cat. He adopted us and we fed him, gave him a good collar, medicine and vet care when he was sick, etc. But we wouldn't let him inside the house with our other two cats even though he wanted to be there. We always knew that an outdoor cat was at more risk from traffic, but we didn't really face that risk. He has been gone for years and I'm still a wreck when I think about it. His name was Bob Vila, because he was tremendously interested in a kitchen remodel we were doing. He kept sneaking inside to have a look around.

As long as we are doing our best with what we know, the guilt should not have room to dig in and fester. If we are doing less than our best, well, that's another matter entirely and should give us a goose in the rear to do better.

shris
my life is off topic, how about yours? :)

I'm sorry

Sorry to hear about your loss. My family has always treated pets like people... and losing one is always harder than non-pet-people can ever fathom. Please accept my condolences...

♥---♥---♥
my artwork

Thanks

Thanks shris and Sara. Thanks for your kind words. I guess the price of caring for an animal, or a person for that matter, is the possibility of loss.

Yeah, my whole life is mostly off-topic!
-Sarah

♥

What brings me a lot of comfort is knowing that I loved my pets as much as possible... and there are a lot of pet owners in the world who neglect and abuse their animals. It brings me comfort to know that my pets were shown what a loving person could be like :}
♥---♥---♥
my artwork

*Sard Hugs Sarah*

Hi Sarah

Sorry to hear about your sad loss. My oldest cat was over 20 when I lost him to heart failure and I still question my choice of care. :( As for off topic, that is my fault too. :S Big hug and hope you except that sometimes sharing a little love is the best we can do. :)

Thanks Sard

Those are good words, Sard.
-Sarah

Sorry!

Sarah - so sorry to hear about your loss! I am a pet-person, so I know how difficult this is! I cannot imagine losing my dog who I consider to be my best friend - she knows all of my secrets too! :)

My thoughts are with you,
nay nay

Living in Harmony...

Hi Shris, We seem to be rather dominating the forum at the moment don't we? :)

Quote: "In your article, Sardonios, and in the Harmony template and in various other places here and there, folks talk about roles as if there are only four. Spiritual, Physical, Mental and Social".

As I said my article was rushed. :( As you go on to say Spiritual, Physical, Mental and Social are aspects of the roles and not roles in themselves. The best way to describe a 'role' (From a Role Theory perspective) is a cross between an actor and a pantomime character. For example let us take a look a the role of pantomime devil (PD):

1/ The player's ideal PD. This is what we believe a pantomime devil should be like. A heady mix of upbringing, media representation, peer beliefs, etc. shape our views.

2/ The other players ideal PD. For example Faust's views on what constitutes a PD.

3/ The spectators view of how one plays PD. As with any good pantomime character. PD likes to play to the audience. Not hugs or kisses but boos and hisses are his delight... BwMuwwwwAHHHH! *cough*

4/ How the player actual fulfils their role as PD. There may be a deficit between the ideal and the realisation of the role. That is not to say Claude Rains would play the part any better than say Christopher Walken. However, each will bring something different to the part. Some roles, such as partner we can change or abandon. Others are harder or we are stuck with them. To use one of your own examples: you mentioned your boss has a different idea to you of how technical articles should be written. The same applies with roles. :)

Quote: ...""Employee, Me, Family Member, Housekeeper". None of these relates directly to the more generally accepted "Spiritual" aspect, but spirituality could be expressed in all of these roles that I play if I choose to do that".

What the accepted meaning is and what something actually means seems to crop up a lot in 'time management'. Good example are syndrome; paradigm, including my new favourite: 'personal paradigm' - Obviously a culture of one. :D - and creato-produtivisation. Okay I made the last one up. shoot me. ;) I digress. If we take DH's role as 'groundsman', we see it has a physical, a spiritual and a mental component. However, unless DH has someone sharing the garden with him, there is no social component. Fortunately his role as husband provides an outlet for this. :)

Quote: " I don't spend time devising how I'm going to nurture my spirituality or my mind or my body. Perhaps some of these things are suffering for that lack of planning perspective".

Your spiritual needs may already be taken care of through the devotion you show to your family, wouldn't you say? Social may be through interactions here, with DH or at work. I know I get a lot of pleasure talk, erm typing to you. Mental, again I find your mind very stimulating. :) Physical; if we except a normal, healthy adult need at least 20 minutes of exercise three time per week to maintain a healthy heart and we except that it takes 30 minutes of exercise before we start to 'burn' fat. Then it should be easy to see if we are getting enough physical activity.

Quote: "I would like a harmony insert that doesn't feature the little graphics to tell me what I'm supposed to focus on".

Doug are you reading this? :)

Quote: "Morgenstern's time map exercise gave me insight into what my balance is right now, even if that's not the balance I'd rather have--without telling me what I'm supposed to be spending time on. I can do that myself." :)

Lol, My concern is quality. Not of Doug's Template, that as always is exemplary. No the quality of the interactions. Exercise as we have seen is relatively easy to measure, what about spiritual, social and mental though? ExSWMBO used to complain that I get too engrossed in things - for example; if I am reading she could set fire to my chair and I would not notice - Hence my social aspect appears to be lacking, but is it? I am by nature an introvert who prefers cats to people. Small talk bores me. Although I like to laugh, discuss art, perhaps even play a game of chess with a Canadian. :D

Quote: "Of course Allen isn't responsible for the excessive growth of your lists. Life conspires. Our assumptions contribute. Everyone around us contributes their two bits".

ROTFLOL. Sorry that was a bit of a disclaimer to stop irrate GTD followers taking my comments personally. :D

Quote: "Here's a good resolution for folks who hate resolutions: I will not feel guilty this year about anything"...

I like that. :) Have you read Le Petit Prince by Antoine De Saint-Exupery?

Long conversation

Hi Sardonios.

I think there are useful bits in here for others, too. Soon enough this thread will be lost in the back pages of the 'recent posts' list. :)

Your four aspects of role sound an awful lot like the six people who are involved in every two-person conversation:

  1. What I think I'm saying.
  2. What you think you're saying.
  3. What I think you're saying.
  4. What you think I'm saying.
  5. What I think you think I'm saying.
  6. What you think I think you're saying.

This is a great oversimplification, of course, of what is actually taught. The book might have said it more loftily. Your example includes a larger group's opinion as well, which doesn't match this little college snippet. Anyway, these six people all contribute to the way you and I frame our discussion even though there are only two of us talking. :) I think there was more value to be gleaned from this concept when I originally saw it in class, but I've forgotten what it was.

On the subject of exercise, I should not have said 'perhaps [it is] suffering.' It is most definitely suffering for lack of focus. :) It's very difficult to get the energy up to exercise when your eyelids weigh 50 lbs by themselves.

Other than exercise, yes, my needs are met by activities I pursue for my more concrete roles. :) Have you read A Treasure's Trove or it's sequel Secrets of the Alchemist Dar? Talk about stimulating.. :) Good if you like puzzles, encryption, deduction..

On 'set fire to chair' yes, me too. When I read, I read. The text is speaking in my ears, the words filling my vision, the feel of the book occupies my hands and lap. There is nothing left to accept input from the ouside world. I used to read a paperback novel in a day or less and read several a week. Can't afford the time for that right now. But I have to say the computer is almost the same. More text, more touch, more sound, just not a narrative. Well, not necessarily, anyway. :)

I know the bit about Allen was a disclaimer. I was going to slip in a joke there but the fifth person wasn't sure how the fourth person would react. :) We make our own lists, then we have to suffer through reading them. And in the case of Allen, the list stays with you until you finish the things on it, so you have to live with the dang thing week after week. Ugh.

Nope, haven't read Le Petit Prince. Is guilt a major theme? :)

I feel almost human today. I think I got almost 7 hours of sleep, interrupted only twice. Not bad.

shris

Knots...

Hi Shris

Quote: "I think there are useful bits in here for others, too. Soon enough this thread will be lost in the back pages of the 'recent posts' list". :)

How true, it is a shame we cannot 'pin' it. :D

Quote: "Your four aspects of role sound an awful lot like the six people who are involved in every two-person conversation".

Ha! You are familiar with Laing? How fantastic. :) (I would say how cool only it would be a step away from wearing jeans and using Grecian 2000 :D)

Quote: "On the subject of exercise, I should not have said 'perhaps [it is] suffering.' It is most definitely suffering for lack of focus". :)

I am not sure that planning will help here. ExSWMBO method was to go swimming and to the gym with a group of female friends. Cheer-leading no doubt. *shudder* As you have already stated you have no friends this will not work. :S Is it possible to walk to the shops or talk the children to a park once a week? Something to get you started. :)

Quote: "Other than exercise, yes, my needs are met by activities I pursue for my more concrete roles". :)

From what I understand of Covey's methodology, it is aimed very much at corporate types; those who work long hours and wear red braces... :D Seriously though, 'Role Conflict' can be a serious problem for some people. For example: PD has to provide a report on the state of Faust's soul by sunrise. However he has promised to take his wife to the theatre (Oh the irony hangs as heavy as a curtain. ;) ) Hence we have a conflict of roles: Spouse vs Employee. The Harmony Form should help resolve these difficulties by allowing PD to set aside enough time to play the role of husband. I think you think the same as I am not saying. However, I have no desire to end up same way as M. Jean-Francois Stéréotype. ;)

Quote "Have you read A Treasure's Trove or it's sequel Secrets of the Alchemist Dar?".

Not yet, but I will on your recommendation. :)

Quote: "I know the bit about Allen was a disclaimer. I was going to slip in a joke there but the fifth person wasn't sure how the fourth person would react". :)

I would laugh, it is the cowled 'Followers' one has to watch out for. :D

Quote: "Nope, haven't read Le Petit Prince. Is guilt a major theme?" :)

Lol, It is a philosophy book for children, although it has a lot to offer adults too. :)

English (translation by Richard Howard)

French

Quote: "I feel almost human today. I think I got almost 7 hours of sleep, interrupted only twice. Not bad".

Good for you. Although remember the quality is to some extent more important than the quantity. :)

Laing

Hi Sardonios.

That you know the name of the person who first talked about the six people impresses me. At the time I was learning it I thought it was very interesting stuff, but his name slipped away very shortly after the midterm exam. :) I was thinking of mentioning how many years ago that was, but surely it can't be as many years as the number that popped into my head.. :)

Yes, I shall have to incorporate exercise into my Family role if I'm to get off my butt. It used to be in my Me role but as Me time has shrunk my priorities changed about which activities get the time. The kids are also very active so they can help me. I wheel them around our street in a red wagon from time to time. I should do that more, since it makes me huff and puff. My daughter likes to pull the wagon. The hills are too much for her, so there is my opportunity. Thirty minutes a day, though, is still hard to come by.

I am sure that focusing on these four aspects/roles is terribly useful for people who think in those terms. It's all about framing the question to fit the audience.

Yes, Covey seems very corporate to me also. I first learned of his system in the business world, certainly. I like a lot of his ideas, but the planning system was a little too elaborate for me. I did the exercises, but I couldn't maintain the discipline of the daily system.

I learned of this site from Morgenstern's website, ironically. Her website is not very active, this one is much better.

Secrets of the Alchemist Dar is actually a puzzle with very fine fancy diamond rings at the end. So far none of the 100 rings is known to have been found, but the puzzles in the book lead straight to them. All of the treasures from the earlier book have been found, and a solution book was published as well. The stories are childrens' stories and the puzzles are intended to be interactive to some degree. I find them both very challenging.

The synopsis of Le Petit Prince is interesting. I shall have to put it on my list. :)

shris

Diamond Rings ...

Hi Shris, We will have to stop meeting like this. ;)

Quote: "That you know the name of the person who first talked about the six people impresses me"

Lol, Laing, was an important figure in mental health (He died in 1989) mainly because he recognised that everyone has the right to be heard. He was also a guru, a.drunk and struck off the medical register in 1987. (for professional misconduct, I believe). What does this tell us? I would say sometimes listening with understanding is as important as the therapy itself.. :)

Quote: " At the time I was learning it I thought it was very interesting stuff, but his name slipped away very shortly after the midterm exam. :) I was thinking of mentioning how many years ago that was, but surely it can't be as many years as the number that popped into my head.. :)

You are making me laugh, I have been trying to guess your age too. ;)

Quote: "Yes, I shall have to incorporate exercise into my Family role if I'm to get off my butt...The kids are also very active so they can help me. I wheel them around our street in a red wagon from time to time. I should do that more, since it makes me huff and puff. My daughter likes to pull the wagon. The hills are too much for her, so there is my opportunity. Thirty minutes a day, though, is still hard to come by".

It must be nice to have children. :) Hmmm, I believe Doug is in a similar boat to you, have you seen this: On Multi-Tasking and Self-Improvement.

Quote: "I learned of this site from Morgenstern's website, ironically. Her website is not very active, this one is much better".

In my opinion D*I*Y's secret is simple. We are community and system agnostic. We can make fun *cough* sorry find out which pieces fit into own organisational jigsaw. :)

I had a quick look at the Secrets of the Alchemist Dar. It looks intriguing, I think DH is a very lucky man to have found you. :)

Flirt

Hi Sardonios.

Now you are flirting with me and I shall have to bat my eyelashes at you. :)

On the whole, I will say that having children is mostly nice. Frequently smelly, sticky, noisy, or wet, regularly exasperating, always challenging, but mostly nice. It seems to be getting better now that we are able to communicate somewhat.

I did see Doug's post on multitasking. Before Children (BC), DH and I would walk a 3 mile loop from our home to the center of town and back. We didn't do this very regularly, but it happened from time to time. The loop has several very significant hills, making it a challenging walk. I also did a little weight lifting and aerobic stuff on my own, especially in the months leading up to baby creation. But being pregnant with twins makes one feel about as energetic as...well, today I'm taking pseudoephedrine for a cold, and I have about the same energy level--napping frequently, listless, feeling like a 200lb man is sitting invisibly on my shoulders, etc. Anyway, I tried to keep the exercise up while I was preggers but I just couldn't. And after they were born there was nothing for a year or so. Tired in a different way. If I had been one who craves activity I could have brought it back to my life sooner, but that's not me. :) I need to make an effort.

On DH, well, I'm very lucky to have him too. We have been married for 13 years and it has been very easy the whole time. Even the stress of twins hasn't changed that, which is a very good thing indeed. Twin parents have a very high rate of divorce, from what I understand.

I am very glad I found this site. It is giving me the foundation to create my own planner, the way I want it. I tried conforming to others' ideas of how planning should be done and I couldn't keep it up. Making my own system is helping that. Thanks, Doug!

shris

The Mouse's Tail...

Hi Shris

Quote: "Now you are flirting with me". :)

Well we definitely have a spark... :)

Quote: "On the whole, I will say that having children is mostly nice. Frequently smelly, sticky, noisy, or wet, regularly exasperating"...

Lol, in other words they are like cats? :D

Quote: "...being pregnant with twins makes one feel about as energetic as...well"...

Apart from the hormonal changes, and would imagine the weight of one baby, plus water would be a tremendous strain never mind two. I would also imagine that unless one actually experiences pregnancy it is quite unfathomable.

Quote: "today I'm taking pseudoephedrine for a cold"...

Rest, take plenty of liquids and NO exercise until you are better. That is an order. ;)

Quote "If I had been one who craves activity I could have brought it back to my life sooner, but that's not me. :) I need to make an effort".

You are a very intelligent woman so I don't need to tell you this... However I will anyway. Your children are the key. :)

Quote: "Twin parents have a very high rate of divorce, from what I understand"

We have to remember culture, understanding and personal belief play a role in divorce too. Some people just 'fit' together like piece in a jigsaw and if we are lucky enough to find our opposite number then most problems can be worked through as a couple. :)

Quote: "I am very glad I found this site. It is giving me the foundation to create my own planner"...

I think we are all glad you found this site. Your contribution to the D*I*Y community has been astounding. Having said that, I think we all have something to offer, from the very entertaining Steve right down to me, who spends his time flirting with you and fishing Ygor and Nay Nay out of the spam bin. ;)

Children are like...

Hi Sardonios.

Well, I would say small children are more like mischievious puppies. Perhaps teenagers are like cats. My cats are fairly self-sufficient, but I have never known a puppy to be so. Also cats are much drier in the face. But my cats are getting old and less jumpy.

While pregnant, I was overcome by daytime sleepies like none I ever had before. I'd be fine all morning, but after lunch you couldn't pry my eyelids open with power tools. It was remarkable. And yes, by the end I was carrying a pretty heavy load on my front, but folks who climb and hike often carry heavier sacks around. Mostly I was fortunate. I moved my office to the couch, where I could prop my feet up all day on doctors' orders. Happy me.

Today, I had the usual office work, followed by greased-pig-wrestling..er, well, that was my daughter resisting pajamas. More wrestling to try to brush a few of her teeth, then more wrestling to get her into bed. I get plenty of strength training, it's the endurance I lack. When I'm not forcing my will upon reluctant toddlers, they run across the room and leap into my arms repeatedly. I am supposed to catch them and swing them 'round, then let them go so we can do it again. Occasionally I am supposed to pick them both up at the same time, then run down the hall. This game is becoming less frequent since they weigh over 50 lbs together. I fear soon that 'horsey' is coming my way. My daughter loves that already, but my son is wary. I'll have to get out my knee pads.

Today I am much better on the cold front. I think Sunday it will be gone.

Yes, of course divorce is influenced by many factors. I am wondering when we'll have to my kids how they ended up with three sets of grandparents. :)

Spam-fishing. Now that must be an interesting hobby. :)

shris

Wide Margins

Let's see how many times we have to do a "reply" on this thread before the indent gets so wide that there is no text visible!!

Heh heh heh.

-Sarah

Resolution..

Hi.

My screen is 1280, so it takes more replies to hit the wall than it would for the minimum res.

:)

shris

can't resist

i'm

meltinggggggggggggg...

heheh
♥---♥---♥
my artwork

Ok shris

You'll be our guinea pig - and your res will be our standard. How bout them apples?

I hope Doug doesn't catch us...

-Sarah

Four inches to go

Hi Sarah.

Still a ways to go. On my screen, your last reply is still in a box four inches wide. :) But I must admit, this is looking mighty silly in a narrower screen.

shris

My turn

Oh, BTW, I like the Rollabind Bulletin Board idea.

:(

It looks like I was mistaken about how this BBS orders postings

-----------------------------------
"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

awww...

heheh this is so bizarre... it's down to about two inches wide on my screen... :o) Great experiment! and all for PURELY scientific purposes of course...
♥---♥---♥
my artwork

Teenage Kicks...

Hi Shris

Quote: "Perhaps teenagers are like cats"

I have to be careful not to put words into your mouth here; do you mean, wilful, capricious, all knowing and easily upset by adult. :P

My cats, as well as the neighbouring cats that let themselves in through the cat flap, Like to play on the keyboard, sleep all day on the bed and swipe my pens... Ah yes 'teenagers' :D

Quote: "While pregnant, I was overcome by daytime sleepies like none I ever had before".

Dare I say this? Typically, a woman's cycle is 28 days. As one's body goes through the various stages of pregnancy the balance of hormones change to protect baby. I do not need to tell you that each person's body reacts slightly differently to these changes. Hence the tiredness.

Quote: "I was carrying a pretty heavy load on my front, but folks who climb and hike often carry heavier sacks around".

This is where common sense fails and science begins. ;) Hikers do not carry the bag around constantly, also hikers have their packs high on their backs. I am in noway an expert in mechanics. However I do know that carrying a large weight, low down and at the front will put an enormous load on one's back, et cetera. (Sorry, have to use Latin or it isn't sciency enough. :D )

Quote: "Today, I had the usual office work, followed by greased-pig-wrestling"...

Did you win? Oh no! Now I will get another lecture from young Steve about my earlier wrestling comments. :D

Quote: "When I'm not forcing my will upon reluctant toddlers, they run across the room and leap into my arms repeatedly. I am supposed to catch them and swing them 'round, then let them go so we can do it again".

Now that sounds like great fun. Obviously for children, I cannot imagine anyone wanting to catch me. :)

Quote "I fear soon that 'horsey' is coming my way".

Lol, last I gave someone a piggyback was at a summer fair years ago. The idea was the 'knight' would attack his or her opponent with a pillow. My opposites 'horse' decided to tickling me... I think you can guess the rest. Great fun, and I think the moral is never tell your knight she is heavy for a woman, especially if one wants her to move. :D

Quote: "Today I am much better on the cold front. I think Sunday it will be gone".

Hurrah!

Quote: "Yes, of course divorce is influenced by many factors. I am wondering when we'll have to my kids how they ended up with three sets of grandparents". :)

Lol, I think I better warn you before we run off together. (Apparently) I am condescending, smell like damp wool and have been told I snore. My good points are... erm, inno HELP!!!! :)

Quote: "Spam-fishing. Now that must be an interesting hobby". :)

It is, although you would not believe how many shoes I catch... ;)

Science

Hi Sardonios.

Yes, cats and teenagers are alike in those respects, as well as being prickly, sensitive, lying abed late in the day, tracking crap all through the house, leaving their hair/clothes lying everywhere, being very demanding, requiring psychic powers to understand what they're thinking and feeling.. I'm sure the list goes on. :)

Yes, I know the hormones of pregnancy caused the tiredness. That and the extra 50 lbs. But it was very odd how sudden it was each day. Kinda like that cartoon safe or grand piano hitting you on the head as you walk down the street.

And yes, of course I know that the packs aren't carried all the time, and they're higher up and loaded so the weight is optimally arranged, etc. But I do expect that pregnancy is why women's center of gravity is lower down than mens'. Furthermore, the fact that the weight is added a little at a time gradually allows a woman to sprout a little extra strength in her legs, where a person with a suddenly-acquired pack might be a little overset the first week or so.

On the greased-pig-wrestling, there is no winning. I can say that the child acquired the clothing and accoutrements I required of her, and ended up where I wished her to be. But that isn't necessarily winning when 20 minutes of howling and sobbing follow. It's much better when wrestling isn't required. But ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

The play part is fun when it's not too repetitive. But for toddlers, you have to repeat everything at least 100 times to extract the maximum fun from it. So, catching a 25 or 30lb side of long pig, then swing, then repeat 100 times per toddler.. They laugh every time.

Today we toured a home improvement store. Daddy got the plumbing parts while Mommy and toddlers toured the winter flowers, sparkly light fixtures, and shiny faucets. We even saw the birds nesting, though it seemed early in the season for that.

Yes, I am sure that telling your knight she's heavy would be a fairly short route to flayed horsey.

Damp wool, eh? Hm. That might be a deal-breaker. You see, DH smells like machinery, which was very attractive in my youth. As for condescending, well, you reap what you sow. I am an arrogant, overweight, overtired know-it-all. I steal the covers, too. :)

shris

Weird Science...

Hi Shris

Quote: "Yes, I know the hormones of pregnancy caused the tiredness. That and the extra 50 lbs. But it was very odd how sudden it was each day".

Say within an hour of eat a meal? ;)

Quote "of course I know that the packs aren't carried all the time, and they're higher up and loaded so the weight is optimally arranged, etc"...

I see you too are wise in the ways of science. ;) (Not condescending this time. I actually find intelligence a turn on :) )

Quote: "On the greased-pig-wrestling, there is no winning".

I wonder if you could turn getting ready for bed into a game? I do not have a young child to hand and a cat in pajamas would just look silly. :) It would however be interesting to know if Bandura's theories have any practice use. Lol.

Quote: "The play part is fun when it's not too repetitive. But for toddlers, you have to repeat everything at least 100 times. to extract the maximum fun from it"...

Rather like one of my jokes, eh? ;)

Quote: "We even saw the birds nesting, though it seemed early in the season for that".

That brings back memories. I used to do these kind of things with my first partner... :(

Quote: "I am sure that telling your knight she's heavy would be a fairly short route to flayed horsey".

I still bear the scars... Want to see? ;)

Quote: "Damp wool, eh? Hm. That might be a deal-breaker. You see, DH smells like machinery"...

Hmmm, but if one was to trade him in?... :D

Quote: " I am an arrogant, overweight, overtired know-it-all. I steal the covers, too". :)

...Or an intelligent, well read, voluptuous woman who needs a man with a sleeping bag? (Note to self: buy a sleeping bag just in case :D )

She blinded me with...

Hi Sardonios.

Re: Tiredness within an hour of a meal. Yes, I know what you're getting at, but it wasn't necessarily related to a meal. Meal sleepies are tame by comparison, easily resisted. Even carb-loaded and tryptophan-loaded meals don't compare. Think a hard clonk on the head, or perhaps extreme jet lag..

On bed-prep-as-game, we have discovered just lately that warning the kids that bedtime is coming a few minutes in advance helps a lot. However, my brother-in-law has a son six months older than our two, and he says it no longer works for his son. So apparently all strategies work for a while, then fail. Most of the time we don't have a whole lot of trouble with pajama-time, but some days there's just no winning. Yesterday the kids didn't sleep during nap at all, today they're apparently zonked within moments of hitting the sheets.

Sorry to dredge up sad associations. We all have hauntings. I keep a couple of favorite books around just to banish the hauntings if one tries to keep me awake at night.

No, I don't want to see your scars. :) I have no need to view wounds, even old wounds. I'd rather see a tickle-fight, honestly. :)

Hah, trading DH in ain't happening. I told him when we were preggers with twins that he wasn't escaping. No wriggling out of this deal. It was his brilliant judgement to protest (with force) that escape wasn't even on his mind.

..but I do appreciate a smart man with a positive outlook. ;)

shris

Remembrance of Things Past...

Hi Shris

Quote: "Tiredness within an hour of a meal. Yes, I know what you're getting at, but it wasn't necessarily related to a meal".

Agreed Even though your metabolic rate would have increased in pregnancy, it would still take a banquet of banana splits in order to produce the symptoms you describe. :) Hmmm, did you crave banana splits for lunch perchance. More to the point, did you indulge? :D

Your comment about extreme jet lag is of more interest. I have taken the liberty of linking to some bio-clock tutorials... For although my on-line persona is 18, looks remarkably like a young David Cassidy and I should know everything, in reality I am over forty, know nothing, and look like Gandalf. Soon I will know less than nothing and will hopefully be offered a comfy chair. However, I fear someone older and therefore completely senile will be sitting in it a while longer. :D

On bed-prep-as-game: ..."apparently all strategies work for a while, then fail".

Hmmm, The bit about a pre-warning is interesting. Perhaps a wind down time would help? Putting toys in back in the toy box, pajamas on ready for a story, etc... I am thinking of establishing a routine of non-verbal cues... Of course with cats, this is a cue to misbehave or become vocal.

Quote: "Sorry to dredge up sad associations"

That is okay, not really your fault. It just reminded me how much I miss being in love... As opposed to being in lust with anyone wearing chenille. :D

Quote: "I keep a couple of favorite books around just to banish the hauntings if one tries to keep me awake at night".

Good idea. I have given up comfort eating yet again. (hang over from school days, Robertson jam on 'pan'. Horrible habit.) and have taken to journalling. Last night I wrote about madeleines... Oh damn!

Quote: "No, I don't want to see your scars. :) ...I'd rather see a tickle-fight, honestly". :)

I am not sure I can still lift a 'knight' (arthritic shoulder) However, if you give me your favour, I am willing to tickle you. :)

Quote: "trading DH in ain't happening"....

Not just lucky, wise too.(DH that is) :)

Quote: ..."but I do appreciate a smart man with a positive outlook". ;)

Thank you shris, perhaps I will hang on to this sleeping bag after all. :D

Eating & tickling

Hi Sardonios.

No, I craved cheeseburgers. Actually, there weren't very many cravings but I did have a distinct aversion to leftovers. That is, I needed variety. And pork chops were pretty low on the list of desired foods for some reason. Anyway, at one point relatively early in the process we went to a local dive with the colorful name of Red Pig. We've gone back since, and their burgers are thoroughly ordinary. But that one time, on that one day, it was absolutely the greatest burger I'd ever had. There was something so viscerally satisfying about that burger..

Had another experience like that some years back when I was on a low-carb diet. I quit all sweets and artificial sweets, bread, pasta, potatoes, starches of all kinds, etc. cold turkey. A month and a half later, I was at a restaurant buffet and allowed myself some fresh strawberries. I am sure they were ordinary strawberries, but they tasted like nectar of the gods.

The body definitely knows what it needs. I ate a lot of beef while I was pregnant. Something about pork was just not right, though, at least for a while. Dunno what it was. Maybe a lack of nice marbling.

Anyway, I tried very hard to eat good food instead of junk. I think mostly I succeeded. I ate my veggies and took my vitamins, anyway. And when the body wanted sleep, I obliged. :)

On bed prep: We have discovered through error that giving the kids no time between jammies and bed is a Bad Thing. So they get in jammies 15-30 minutes beforehand. We don't do a specific "jammies, story, bed" routine in the minutes before bed, but the times when we've had the kids put their toys away first were pretty successful. "Say night-night to the toys" is a nice reinforcer that bedtime is coming. So I'm not sure the magic is in the putting away, or if it's just another reminder.

I like chenille too, but it just doesn't last. My life is "machine wash, tumble dry" and chenille is just too "hand wash, lay flat to dry" for me. Though we did recently acquire a dryer that can handle the 'lay flat' part, which I am eager to test.

For me, comfort food is cookies or ice cream mostly. Very bad. For a while I was successfully controlling my habits with prepacked 'servings' so there was an artificial limit on my snacking (one bag per snack instance). But it falls apart whenever we buy the 'family size' bag or make our own. Oh well. More reasons to get up off my butt and exercise.

shris

Tickling & Eating...

Hi Shis

Craved cheeseburgers? Lol. There was some rumour about Elvis craving cheeseburgers too. Just the thought puts me off and yet I would quite happily munched my way through your leftovers... :) As you are no doubt aware leftovers do not have a the same (mental) calorie count as one's own meal. :S

Interesting, if I had see a place named Red Pig I would have been forced to at least peek inside. The cats do not have the monopoly on curiosity you know. ;)

Low-carb diet, hmmm. I would think exercise and regulating one's calories would be a healthier way to go... Says the man who has gained almost 8lb in two months. :) May I ask if it was the strawberries. which knocked you of the wagon, so to speak?

I remember hearing stories of animals searching out salt licks and we have all witnessed cats choosing just the right blade of grass to chew. Does the body know what it needs, is it the taste or even a certain smell? This is why I think science is a lot more interesting than some 'old soldier' tracking along the Arctic, battle herds of vicious walrus or climbing mountains so high the locals have provided a ladder to first base. :D

On bed prep: ..."Say night-night to the toys" is a nice reinforcer that bedtime is coming. So I'm not sure the magic is in the putting away, or if it's just another reminder".

I think it is something you could try too. :) Humans love rituals. It add meaning and richness to one's life and provide 'touchstones' with which to measure one's progression. Not sure? Think about your graduation, your wedding day, even your 21st. All touchstones and rituals you have already completed, possibly without recognising them as such. :)

Quote: "I like chenille too, but it just doesn't last"...

Tie it on top of my pen and I shall wear it as my lady's favour on the quest for the best planning system. :D

On comfort food: Break your cycle and stop it forming in the children by not buying any cookies or ice cream. Making one's own with the help of the children turns it a 'special' treat rather than a convenience food. While I realise you already know this, saying it in a Donald duck voice will make it twice as true. Go on try it and see. :)

I can see another reason for you to exercise. Losing four pounds before I do. :) Double dare you. :P

Pigs

Hi Sardonios.

Leftovers: Yes, and broken cookies have fewer calories, and if you eat standing up the calories all leak out your feet instead of collecting in your rear..

I had my bloodwork done while I was low-carbing and there were no ill effects that the docs could point out. But not everyone has the same results. Twenty pounds heavier now and my bloodwork is still terrific. The strawberries weren't my downfall--it was a gift box of chocolates received from a company exec for Christmas about 6 months after starting the diet. Even that was more of a death knell than the beginning of the end. The diet did do a couple of good things for me, though. I still don't drink soda or caffeinated beverages, almost 10 years later, and I still start with a plate full of veggies when I'm at the buffet. :)

I don't know whether it's the taste or smell that guides you to the right stuff, but the memory of a cheeseburger was what made me go "Mmm!" And the experience of a pork chop definitely turned me off.

Rituals: I have little rituals I use--like the favorite books to banish hauntings. I like my bowl of cereal in the morning. My schedule and memory issues have messed up any pattern there might have been in most of the daily stuff, though I do like to go about dinner-making in a certain way. The problem I have with starting a bedtime ritual with the kids is that I don't want it to become a requirement rather than a help. Example: If we *always* have a story before bed, and we keep the kids out late doing something, do we still have to have the story even if it's an hour after bedtime? Ugh. The big milestones (birthdays and holidays) will become more ritualized as the kids get old enough to understand them.

Favours: Heh. :)

Comfort foods/making it myself: Yes, it would be infinitely better if I made my own of these foods whenever I wanted them. Like I did last week. :) On the other hand, it would be better yet if they weren't around at all. Then they'd *really* be a treat.

Losing four pounds: Four pounds is barely measurable on a scale. I can do that by swearing off salty foods for one or two days. It's not the poundage that's a problem, it's the makeup of the poundage. What I'd rather do is lose a size in my jeans. That represents a 10-15 lb loss, which is much less likely to be ONLY water. It would make all my shirts fit better too.

If you want to be a weight loss buddy, I could go for that. This morning I was ***lbs, and I need to get rid of 17 to get to pre-baby. Another 20 or 30 lbs after that and folks might call me Petite for more than just my height. :)

shris

...In Wigs...

Hi Shris

Quote: "I had my bloodwork done while I was low-carbing and there were no ill effects that the docs could point out. But not everyone has the same results".

That is interesting. Rats adapt quite rapidly to a high fat diet and yet humans cannot. It could be the same with humans and high protein, low carb diets although I am too fond of pasta to find out. :D Something else I have heard suggested. People who eat a lot of starchy foods tend to add heavy dressing too, then blame carbs for their weight gain. Sound familiar or not in your case?

Quote: "The diet did do a couple of good things for me, though. I still don't drink soda or caffeinated beverages, almost 10 years later, and I still start with a plate full of veggies when I'm at the buffet". :)

It also show me how determined you can be if you want to. :)

Quote: "the memory of a cheeseburger was what made me go "Mmm!" And the experience of a pork chop definitely turned me off".

Note to self: Pork chops are not a weapon of great seduction. ;)

Talking of rituals: Who does the food shopping? Both times I was with a partner, they did the groceries. I would put something in the trolley, they would fish it out and added what they wanted instead. :S I did get to carry the wallet and push the thing so I cannot say the experience was all bad. :) What I am thinking is, if you have control over which foods to buy and how it is cooked does it form part of the problem? When I am alone I tend to, let us say, taste the dishes more vigorously than if someone is watching over me getting rather upset if I try to put the spoon back in the pan for second helpings. ;)

Comfort foods: "it would be better yet if they weren't around at all. Then they'd *really* be a treat".

How do these 'comfort' food or the ingredients for that matter, find their way into your house? I think that is the big question. :)

Quote: "If you want to be a weight loss buddy, I could go for that" :)

How can any man refuse a smiley like yours :)

47lb is an awfully lot of weight for anyone to lose. 15 - 20lb is a safer goal to start with. Or we could go on jean size. I think each size down represents a two inch loss, is this correct? So if I am an 18 I would like to be a 14 again as there is no 15. Of course the funny thing is we have just handed Steve some more ammunition to fire across my portly bow. ;) How would you like to do this. On here or back channel? :)

Food, glorious Food!

Hi Sardonios.

"People who eat a lot of starchy foods tend to add heavy dressing too, then blame carbs for their weight gain. Sound familiar or not in your case?"

Well, it's hard to say, exactly. At a guess I would say that too much dieting and not enough exercise had quite a bit to do with the growth of my girth. I seem to recall going on my first diet with my mother when I was in 5th grade--it was just to keep her company so she wouldn't have to do double cooking, but by 8th grade I needed a diet for myself. By the time I got out of high school I was overweight but not obese and had been through a series of diets. But my favorite pastime was reading, mostly, so there was not much help in the running around department. All of my adult life I have been 'the cold one,' meaning of any group in the room, I was the one who always thought the temperature was too low for comfort. My hands would shut down in ordinary office settings--turning blue and stiffening up even though the temperature was fine for everyone else. I'd wear turtlenecks and sweaters with long pants and even long johns and still be cold sitting in my office. So I would say that my metabolism became very good at hibernation after all the dieting and no significant exercise.

As far as bad food habits, well, I am sure portion control was a problem at one point, but I also spent years tracking my intake with software and measuring with a sensitive digital scale. So even if my measurements were a little off, I had a good idea of how much I was eating and it wasn't overboard by any stretch, at least at the time I was measuring.

I have noticed that since the kids, I can eat more than I used to without gaining any more weight. My calorie budget is higher than it used to be. I am guessing it's because I do a lot of lifting and a lot less reading now. But I do think pregnancy may have been a reset switch for my metabolism. I wasn't cold anymore after about four months..

When I was in college, I did a lot of walking to class, etc. I had a cafeteria cheeseburger every weekday for lunch (significantly better than the junk I was eating in high school), and while most folks gain 15 lbs in college (the freshman 15), I lost 5 lbs.

On food shopping. Well, I'd say it's probably a 50/50 split. We go to a warehouse club to stock up once a month, then get fresh food and milk once or twice a week. I'm usually the one to do the monthly, and DH usually does the weekly, though it doesn't always work out that way. Sometimes we go together. :) I think our food selections are reasonable, though we could probably emphasize the veggies more. For the last few years I have been planning the meals so the monthly run could be a monthly run. The equation at this point is one meat, one starch, and one veg for every dinner. Lunches are less balanced, and breakfast for me is fortified cereal.

DH is very thin--even when I was lighter, we were the same weight and he is a foot taller than I. So he can eat far more than I can without any adverse effects. He's the primary reason a lot of the junk enters the house. Example: he drinks carbonated beverages, so we buy cases of the stuff for him. Likewise he needs a dessert every night--I don't, as long as I have something yummy during the day. He's definitely a chip-eater, which I should not have taken up again. But even if he were not around I would have my own junk. Having to make the cookies is not a particular deterrent--it just means it's more difficult to calculate the calories in each cookie. It also means I'll be eating some dough. :)

Sizes = 2 inches. I think that's right for the sizes over 10. Under 10 I think it's 1 inch.

Smaller goal, initially: Yes, a smaller goal is safer to start. Heck, 5 lbs would be more than I've done in the last year and a half.

I think a back channel would be better for the rest. :) This is not a food, eating, or weight loss forum, after all.

I dug out my diet software and started using it again yesterday. I also dug out my kitchen scale so I could see just how enormous my bowl of cereal is in the morning. :)

shris

Of course. Purely

Of course. Purely Scientific. No other explanation is necessary. ;-)

But this is for science

Well ygor, yes, we could do that (hit new comment) but it's much more fun to see if we can annoy Doug make our comments get really, really skinny...

-Sarah

Fun Science

And it's fun to watch the column get narrower while holding the scroll button to get to the bottom of things.

glee (scientific glee)

You all are such a great bunch of planner and paper loving people... I hadn't been feeling so well today and this has really cheered me up. (I am truly easily ammused). I haven't experienced happiness from science since DNA fingerprinting in AP Biology... ten years ago.
ps... down to about an inch on my screen :o
♥---♥---♥
my artwork

Science

As a computer system administrator with a degree in Physics, I can say this is probably the most fun I've had with computers in a long time. Except for designing templates maybe... that's really fun... and hanging out on this forum... ok, I guess I do have *some* fun with computers. Usually, however, I am just their slave.

-Sarah

Getting a new baby

Since this is the thread on which I shared the loss of my bird last week, I'll add here that I have decided to get another bird. Here he is. I met him today and fell in love with him. He won't be able to come home with me for a couple more weeks, because he is still such a little baby. I miss my lost bird, but I am excited to give a home to (and spoil) this little guy.

-Sarah

i hate systems who do this

i hate systems who do this to comments. sheez... enough of this already. :)

congrats on your new baby sarah...he's a cutie! :)

/innowen
... who's really tired...

Hit the wall

Hi.

I think this is it, on my screen we're down to a very small column. :)

shris
Yep, a long word will cause the column to stretch beyond my screen's limits.

my final test

I awake to find the column of replies is down to a one word limit. I will attempt one final test ...

CONGRATULATIONS Sarah!!!

I have never be a bird parent before but your little boy is quite adorable ♥
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
test results:
The "congratulations" should have been too large for the one word limit... and it seems the system has recognized this and pushed the entire margin over into the 'gray' area... very interesting. c(O.o)o

♥---♥---♥
my artwork

Baby...

Hi Sarah

Thank you for the picture. I can see why you fell in love with your new baby. He looks a very cheeky young chap with a glim in his eye and feathers as grey as my hair... :)

Oh no! Now I am patronising young birds. Whatever next, saying Nih to shoe sellers?... :O

New birds!

Yep, I got two new feather-kids. I ended up getting a different cockatiel than I had first planned on. Here they are:

linky
-Sarah

Cuties~!

congratulations~! they are adorable~!

Have you named them yet? :P

Edit:
Nevermind, I went back and looked at the cuties closer... Socrates and Sundance are ADORABLE names... very fitting from the pictures.

I wish you and your new feather babies all the best :D
♥---♥---♥
my artwork

New Babies...

Hi Sarah

Socrates and Sundance are beautiful, but what happen to the cheeky looking grey cockatiel?

birds

Hi Sard. I decided on Sundance instead of the grey cockatiel. The little grey bird (wasn't he adorable? I was going to name him Theodore) was not going to be ready to go home for a few more weeks, and also he was in a town about an hour away from me. Sundance and Sergeant Lemon Drop (I changed Socrates' name) were local, so I got a chance to see them several times before deciding.

I renamed the little one Sergeant Lemon Drop -- "Sarge", because he is such a bossy little tiny thing, and "Lemon Drop" because he looks like one!

They are starting to get used to their new home and "come out of their shells" a bit. Sundance likes to pick up little toy balls with his foot or his mouth and throw them as far as he can and then watch me go get them. That must be a really fun game. Sergeant Lemon Drop likes to boss Sundance around even though Sundance is about twice his size.
-Sarah

Scientific Science...

Quote Sara: " I hadn't been feeling so well today"...

I hope you are feeling better today. :)

Scientific Fun...

Quote: "And it's fun to watch the column get narrower while holding the scroll button to get to the bottom of things".

A surprise result: (to me anyway) We have hit the bottom and come out on the next page... Now who would like to work up the statistics on this. :D

Not me

I just found this second page.

Just use "Add a new comment" instead of "Reply"

:)

I have noted that this BBS system places posts in time order, and then undents to indicate thread relation.
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"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

You know much that is hidden, O Ygor...

Your wisdom in the secret knowledge of (computer) science far exceeds mine and your smiley shows me you mean no offence. Nevertheless, I am old and stubborn. My legs are grey. My ears are gnarled. My eyes are old and bent. Therefore I am forcing myself not to laugh when you point out my childish behaviour... ROTFLOL. On no, to late... :D