Learning To Love Vista

Windows Vista Sucks
Good day all, Steve here, welcoming you to the start of the end of your week. So I was thinking about Windows Vista. I was not thinking good things. I work in an electronics store and we have a steady stream of people walking in the door threatening to bash their computers with an axe, because they can't get Vista to work properly. Usually, we suggest a sledgehammer.

It occurred to me that perhaps we're looking at this whole problem the wrong way. Maybe Vista isn't a terrible operating system that doesn't work right and is unbelievably slow and has a lot of useless features and won't play games or burn c.d.s and generally doesn't do a damned thing. Verily, it honketh mightily. Here's an idea: maybe Vista's simply a tool for people who enjoy pain in their lives. Hmm…

For, truly, Vista has brought pain into our lives. It's a veritable electronic masochism service. Except for me. I use a Mac. I get a feeling of smug self-satisfaction and justification for having spent three times as much money for my computer when I see people who've spent six days trying to send an email. But, as far as I can tell, for just about everyone who bought a new computer with Vista, it's been nothing but pain. A friend of mine who works in IT was very excited that his brand new computer had Vista. Shortly after, he developed a minor problem with his internet connection and attempted to fix it. His computer was subsequently sucked down into the sixth level of the Inferno. His current whereabouts are unknown.

Microsoft has taken masochism into the main stream. Until now, masochism was mostly confined to stressed-out businessmen who would pay an angry woman to beat them with a duck while singing show tunes, but Vista has brought pain into our schools and living rooms. The shrieks of pain and suffering can be heard across the land.

See what I'm saying? Maybe all that's needed here is a change in perspective. If we stop getting angry at Vista for not working and instead embrace it for the pain it brings into our lives, then we're in business.

Of course, if you don't want more pain in your life, or, um, if you actually want to do something with your computer…then this doesn't help at all. In fact, it's bordering on delusional. Anybody have any better suggestions? Geez, I need sleep.

Until next time keep your pen on the page and Vista optimizer caused system blockage. Need assistance.

Steve Sharam
www.whenrealityknocks.com

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Smooth Sailing

I'm typing this post on a Vista OS machine. Obviously, I'm not having any trouble doing so.

It's been nothing but smooth sailing since I bought it last summer.

No virii, no unexplainable crashes, no problems getting things to run.

Do you think that maybe, just maybe, your view is skewed by the fact that the people you're going to see are the people that have problems?

No, I don't break out in to sensual pleasure every time I crank up my PC, but then, that's not why I bought it. It's a tool. It does a job. It does its job well.

No problems for me...

I got a new Vista machine in September and have had no problems. The only annoyance is that older versions of tax and bookkeeping software were developed pre-Vista, and they don't work on Vista. But I kept the old machine anyway, so no problem.

It's been a bit frustrating at times because Explorer works differently, and settings are in different places, but overall I'm happy, and I expected a learning curve of some sort.

So fear not, have an adventurous heart, and join the fun.

I have, however, decided that if a computer was designed and sold with a particular operating system installed, it's best to stay with that system. I'm not upgrading my XP machine to Vista--leaving it the way it was meant to be. I did upgrade a laptop from Millenium to XP and didn't like the results, so from now on my computers will remain in their natural states. They're getting so cheap nowadays (I paid $350 for my Vista machine, after rebates) it's practical to just buy a new one instead of trying to make the old one last ten years.

That's my opinion, ymmv.

--Glenda

Downgraded

We ordered new computers at work. They came with Vista. First thing we did was uninstall it and replace it with XP.

- Jen

System requirements

That reminds me of a .sig I saw in a USENET news post:

"On the side of the software box, in the 'System Requirements' section, it said 'Requires Windows 95 or better'. So I installed Linux."

Love that! I used Linux in

Love that! I used Linux in college and liked it. I've often thought about crossing over.

- Jen

Join the light side of the Force...

I run Ubuntu Linux, and adore it.

--
Steff
[ blog | photos ]

questions

is it hard to use and understand?
can i get like a cheap pc laptop and run it there?
can i try it out on my mac?

---
Levenger stole ALL of my money, but they left me all these nice, shiny organizational tools.

1) For the basics, no not

1) For the basics, no not really.
2) Probably.
3) If you have an Intel Mac, you can run 7.10. If you have a PPc Mac, you can run 6.06.

You can also burn what is called a "live CD" and test it out. Also, read the instructions for how to burn an ISO, otherwise, you will burn a coaster.

-----
"In some situations you need to ask yourself 'WWRD?' What would Riggins do in a situation?"
Landry Clarke -- Friday Night Lights

Ubuntu PPC

Actually, I've currently got Ubuntu Gutsy (7.10) running on my 2000 PowerBook (Pismo) just fine. You need to know where to download it from, and then, it seems there's a bug, and you might need to do some editing on the command line when the boot dies... er, _if_ the boot dies, and drops you in the command line. But once you know of this issue, the typing is really rather trivial. However, it _does_ work, and there is a live CD for PowerPC.

However, there is also the latest Fedora (which you might like better on a PowerPC) and OpenSUSE and Yellow Dog Linux, all of which run on PowerPC computers.

However, like Reepicheep, if you have items you need that are "unix" only, OS X and the X11 environment may do you well. I've compiled a few apps on my own, in fact, including a couple "doozies" like Firefox 3 beta (don't recommend it) and an app called BibleTime. (I did Gnucash also, but now it's in Fink, and I installed that). There are couple options for getting Unix/Linux apps onto OS X--sort of like mini distributions for X11 under OS X. So, while I've got Ubuntu on my Pismo, I seldom boot it, using X11 in OS X most of the time. (This way, for instance, I can use Skype and Flash, neither of which work under PPC in Linux(both work on Intel in Linux)--blame Skype and Adobe)

-Jon

If you have a Mac

If you want to try Linux on a Mac there are some alternatives. The foremost of which is to use Mac OS X! OS X is a UNIX operating system with equal status to that other UNIX operating system Linux. So as much as a I love Linux I'd say to an OS X user don't bother stick with what you have.

If you're Mac isn't capable of running OS X then you should probably check out Yellow Dog Linux.

As for using cheap PC laptops it should be possible to test Linux out but beware of old hardware.

Where I work (academic

Where I work (academic library) we were going to be the pilot department for deploying Vista.

A few test boxes arrived so that IT could start building the images used by the various units of the library. (For example, the catalogers have a different image than the admin office.) In every single case there was a mission critical piece of software that would not run under Vista.

We discovered that Vista cannot be deployed on campus at this time.

-----
"In some situations you need to ask yourself 'WWRD?' What would Riggins do in a situation?"
Landry Clarke -- Friday Night Lights

Us too

I work at a Cornell University Extension office and many of Cornell's softwares are no compatible with Vista...another reason we chose to stick with XP.

- Jen

What killed it for the

What killed it for the campus is that it won't run the software we use to check/change Student enrollment.

-----
"In some situations you need to ask yourself 'WWRD?' What would Riggins do in a situation?"
Landry Clarke -- Friday Night Lights

apple sucks as bad or worse

i love the os. but the hardware (for a laptop) is made like crap. My 3 grand mac book pro has a huge dent and part of the case actually fell open.

I have always taken great care of this machine and almost never moved it. on one day i moved it (while in the case and $300 levenger backpack) to take it to the living room to surf and watch tv. the backpack fell on the way there, but its no big deal because the house is fully carpeted and there is a thick layer of padding on it, plus it only fell 10 inches (i measured). so when i take it out of the backpack to check, i see the issue i described to you.

i took it to the apple store that minute.

i was told the following by a "genius" and a supervisor:

1- they believe my story
2- that doesn't matter the warranty is completely void (even for non-moving parts, software and accessories)
3- the case is made of super strong aluminum that can handle hundreds of pounds of force (Umm WTF? are they serious?)
4- if PLACED, not dropped, on a desk with a pencil on it, it can create the same dents that happened to my laptop. (WTF? what about the hundreds of pounds of force it can handle? a pencil can undo that? yes they said this with a straight face)
5- apple knows this
6- no matter the warranty would still be void.
7- the fully documented issues i was having with the DVD player, they will not be looked at anymore, even though it is an issue, documented that was going on before, thats void too.
8- no refund for the applecare. tough luck buddy.

after returning to a different store and calling a number of times and hearing the same lines over and over (yes apparently the one about the pencil) i gave up on the issue. my issue was never that apple should cover accidental damage, my issue was that such a small incident should not have caused such major damage. i was told that a pencil could do it and thats just how computers are and have always been.

truth is i know because i have 3 toshiba's that this would never have even happened on a toshiba and if it did they would be doing back flips to fix it.. for free

and this is all after having been among the first to buy the 17in MBP when it first came out. The computer was crap from the start and had to be replaced 5 times... i even got one that didnt have a working dvd drive from day one. what fun.

Apple sucks as bad for making crappy hardware, knowing its crappy, but refusing to do anything about it.
Microsoft sucks for the same reason (only its software/os)
so the lesson they both suck just as bad. maybe i will move to open source or maybe i will give up computing, or maybe i will buy second hand but apple hardware sucks and Microsoft os sucks.

p.s. i am still dazed from overeating yesterday so please forgive any grammar or spelling errors :)

---
Levenger stole ALL of my money, but they left me all these nice, shiny organizational tools.

I am 90% Microsoft Free and proud of it

I have 4 macs I use - 2 desktops and 2 laptops.
When I upgrade, I do not discard the previous model :)

My kids use Macs. My wife uses a Mac. I have one old Intel box in the garage I plan to eventually use for Linux.
Between AppleWorks, iWork, and OpenOffice, I have no need for Micro$oft Office and I am proud of it.

For those occasional It-must-run-on-MS-OS, I have Parallels and an XP-VM, but I find less and less need for it. I plan to use Parallels for some Linux fun, so it will not go to waste.

In terms of the Mac vs PC Wars, I contribute this LINK to a wonderful monologue written by the great Douglas Adams. Although it was written in 1995, I believe it continues to hold true today. Especially the closing line:

The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armour to lead all his customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he who by peddling second-hand, second-rate technology, led them all into it in the first place.

Douglas Adams

-----------------------------------
"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

"DOS Computers, manufactured by millions of companies, are by far the most popular, with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, may note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans, and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form."
--The New York Times, November 26, 1991

10 percent of computer users are Mac users, but remember, we are the top 10 percent.
-- Douglas Adams

i used to love my mac too,

i used to love my macs too until apple screwed me over for loving them so much.

after being one of the first people to pre-order the mac book pro, i got brutally screwed...repeatedly.

and windows is no better.

this is what i have to say about it all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id_kGL3M5Cg

---
Levenger stole ALL of my money, but they left me all these nice, shiny organizational tools.

100% MS free

I'm proud to boast that I am 100% Microsoft free here. The machine I'm using to this reply is a MacBookPro with FireFox, Thunderbird, OpenOffice.org, Inkscape, GimpShop, Scribus, R, Octave, LyX, OpenProject, GanttProject, ThinkingRock, Journler, Phone Director, FlightGear. Not one MS application among them.

My other workstations are all Linux based. And run FireFox, Thunderbird, OpenOffice.org, Inkscape, GimpShop, Scribus, R, Octave, LyX, and ThinkingRock, FlightGear. My servers are Linux. Even the firewall is based on Linux.

The only time I use Windoze machines is when working at a local college. They have been suckered in by MS marketing. Hence everything grinds along in low gear wasting expensive machine cycles on useless features of bloatware.

There are things I can do as a normal user of Mac OS X or Linux that I can't do with Windoze --- not because I'm prevented from doing them but because the feature just doesn't exist.

And the moment you get away from being a power-user to being a sys admin the whole MicroStuck interface gets in your way and really does prevent you from setting things up properly. Windoze is a danger to the security and health of the Internet (and to its users too).

By the way I was an MCSE (Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer) for work purposes but even then at home it was Linux all the way.

Yes, it has its quirks

I have a shiny new computer (well, a couple of months old), that came with Vista pre-installed, and I did not have time to install Windows XP or Linux on it, as I needed to work right away. And it is not bad. While I don't see the screaming performance I would expect from a dual core processor, compared to my previous PIII, the computer is quite speedy and has not given me much trouble. Except by access to Internet through wireless. It is slow. I have tried everything under the sun, and it still manages to block my connections every now and then. Oh, and hibernation with my LCD monitor is broken, but I don't expect that to be any better with any other operating system...

One of my friends was thrown off by the fact that Vista now asks for permission to do anything. Considering my XP computer had a paranoid firewall installed which asked even more questions, I don't really see this as a problem.

I have a shiny new computer

I have a shiny new computer (well, a couple of months old), that came with Vista pre-installed, and I did not have time to install Windows XP or Linux on it, as I needed to work right away.

Ditto, exactly the same for me, but itis bad. Funny me reading this post during a short brake from a very long session reading up on Linux, 'cos Vista has driven me into the arms of Linux. Too many blue screen crashes, painfully slow, and too temperamental.

Hi, I'm a Mac...

Well, it may well be that I only see the malfunctioning Vista machines, but the malfunctions I see are many, varied, continuous and baffling, but I haven't been a Windows user for years, so what the hell do I know?

Steve Sharam
www.whenrealityknocks.com

Have you seen the UK ads ?

http://www.apple.com/uk/getamac/

I recommend "Pie Chart", "Naughty Step", and "Tentacle"

There used to be Japanese ads, but they seem to have disappeared.
I did, however, download a dozen of them before they vanished.

-----------------------------------
"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

I'm among those content with

I'm among those content with Vista. My system was the last in the house to be upgraded, because it's the one used most often for real work, and it's hard to find enough down time for upgrades. Now, when we did an upgrade from XP to Vista, yes, we had some problems. But the other machines in the household had no such issues with their upgrades, not even the machine that gets almost as much use as my own. But my system on XP was pretty highly configured away from the Windows default, as is often the case with any power user. After a few weeks of troubles on the upgraded machine, we did take my machine offline, did a total reformat and installed Vista fresh. Once I'd done that, it took me a few days of tinkering to get things settled back into the way I prefer working (mostly a matter of re-mapping some of the default directories to the individual harddrives I'm using rather than directories on the C drive, stuff like that), and I've not had any issues since then. We only had one piece of hardware that was not Vista-compatible, which was my old HP scanner.

I know why the upgrade hadn't gone well, where the clean install did. Vista changes the way users and permissions are set up on the system. When we upgraded, all my issues were about what user was trying to run an application, versus which user was allowed to run it. And sometimes an application would be running under one user, but files or settings it needed had been set up under some other user, because I keep absolutely as many data files as possible on a physically separate harddrive. In Outlook, for example, all my actual .PST files, and as many of my account settings as possible, are stored on my Docs drive, away from the program files. In every application where you're allowed to set where the data file is stored, it's stored on my Docs drive. This is still the case with Vista, but when we tried to do an upgrade from XP, many of the permissions for these data files ended up being different than the actual program installations. When we did a clean install of Vista, I was able to install each application and then set each one anew to use the data files on the Docs drive. This setup process on Vista was no more or less painful and time consuming than on any other new system. It just had to be done cleanly, and not as an upgrade of the OS.

I've actually had more issues getting re-accustomed to the new Office suite than to Vista. I know that the new ribbon layout is supposed to be more intuitive than the old menu-based layout, but for someone who was very used to where things could be found in the menus, the ribbons confuse me sometimes, and there are still a couple of things I can never remember where they're now located. (On the other hand, I LOOOOVVVEEE the new Outlook 2007, and wouldn't go back to Outlook 2003 for large quantities of good hard cash. It's a great improvement to productivity and organization. And frankly since I use it constantly every day I'm not having any issues with the ribbon layout in Outlook. So I'm pretty sure that if I used Word constantly I'd be able to figure that one out as well...making this a user issue, not a software issue. *G*)

I hear all the time about problems with Vista, but I just haven't seen it here.

OffLead Blog - Dogs and other of life's joys.

May be the problem is

May be the problem is focusing solely on the "problems". I have used Vista, XP, Ubuntu and little of Mac. All these OS required some change in my expectation. I have a hunch that Mac may loose its shine only its user base crosses a critical limit like 25 or 30 percentage. Then it will be put under spotlight by more people, it will be used in many more ways, more people will try to hack and so on. So may be I should stop writing about a damn OS and get back to my work

Not bugs, Features.

"Those aren't bugs, those are 'features'."

After reading all these highly technical responses

I take it back. I want one of them new computers for kids what cranks up:D

Steve Sharam
www.whenrealityknocks.com

$400 gets you one -- and gives one

http://www.laptopgiving.org/en/give-one-get-one.php
And it runs Linux

Oooh! Added bonus: A year's worth of T-Mobile Hot-Spot service when you donate
-----------------------------------
"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

I found something nice to say about Vista...

It is driving folks away from Microsoft.

Look at this:Vista worries lead IT pros to consider Linux, Mac alternatives

One must laugh. Not only is there a Mac vs PC conflict, but a Vista vs XP battle as well

>:D
-----------------------------------
"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

Ha ha ha!

Ha ha ha ha haaaaa, snort, roar, barf!

Steve Sharam
www.whenrealityknocks.com

Were you drinking milk at the time ?

One can only hope.
-----------------------------------
"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

No comment.

I'm not commenting. This is not a comment:P

Steve Sharam
www.whenrealityknocks.com

Vista free zone

My trusty little 486 won't run Vista (or XP) so I'm safe from your issues.

Of course, it would be nice it was faster than a snail but that's OK

Ha!

I remember upgrading from an 8086 (non-IBM compat, to boot!) to a 286--CGA color, too, in fact! I thought it was the rip-roaringest computer in the world! And then I went Mac, and changed worlds. ;-)

-Jon

Vista free zone

So, when my Sony vaio went belly up a couple of months ago I struggled with the choice. Stay with PCs which I have used steadily since I switched from programming on punch cards or switch to a Mac book. I switched. I opened the box yesterday. My uses so far are pretty basic so I haven't noticed much difference yet. I have had to reboot several times as the cd drive locked up several times and refused to eject my cd. The interface is pretty easy to use and once I get used to some of the differences I think I'll like it. I do already miss my right click on the mouse though for copy/paste. I'm sure the same function is there somewhere I just haven't figured it out yet.

How-to Right-Click on a Mac...

Control-click or just get a three-button mouse and configure the right button for control-click.

Or do this on newer Mac Books
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"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

Mighty Mouse

You can also configure the Mighty Mouse to use a right click...

one Linux trick

I like the Linux trick of hilighting text, and then middle-clicking to paste it wherever you want. I still haven't found a way to do this on the Mac. But I like it... Of course, I use middle-click for other things on my Mac, so it would probably be incompatible--but I still find myself wanting to do it--or even trying to do it on occasion...

-Jon

i am getting a new computer and it wont be a mac or a pc

SO THERE!!!!

my next computer will be the asus eee pc!!

because the internet is about 94.37% of what i do on a computer anyway.
---
Levenger stole ALL of my money, but they left me all these nice, shiny organizational tools.

Good luck

A quick search tells me they are in short supply

Also, these books might help: Link and Link

-----------------------------------
"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

You'll be lucky

A quick search tells me they are in short supply

Least you have supply. Here in the UK it appears that the ASUS eee is still only "announced" but not yet shipping. Many places are taking pre-orders. Prices is expected to be around £200 ($400) when stock is finally available.

Might be nice to have one for emergencies or those occasions when a MacBook Pro is just too heavy to lug around all day.

At least it's announced!

Here in Poland, it's made of pure unobtanium. :-(

But my wife wants one, because it will fit in her purse! On the Amazon page, I think it was, the first customer comments were all about how well it fits in a purse! I suspect that this will be a big hit with the ladies!

I'm thinking of getting one for myself as a second _more_ portable computer. ;-)

-Jon

Unobtaniam:P

Ha! Now that's funny:P

Steve Sharam
www.whenrealityknocks.com

thats why it pays to be an amazon prime member

amazon will NEVER admit this but when an item is on back order prime members get bumped up. i got am email saying it should arrive at my door in a week and a half. ymmv

and that is not the first time i have been able to get the amazon bump. i wasnt going to renew prime but i think i will.

---
Levenger stole ALL of my money, but they left me all these nice, shiny organizational tools.

Vista makes the Top Ten List...

of "Worst Consumer Tech"

Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-haaaaa !

-----------------------------------
"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

Apple's "Don't give up on Vista" Ad

Fantastic !!
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"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

That's great!

That's great!

Snort!

Now that's REALLY funny!

Steve Sharam
www.whenrealityknocks.com

There's something wrong when...

I work in a Mac shop so I'm inherently biased, but what sells macs for me over Vista is that Leopard will work (with a RAM upgrade in some cases) on laptops going back four years and desktops going back five - an the upgrade, even on those machines, works fine. When a new OS renders computers brought relatively recently obsolete and when users don't feel comfortable upgrading even newer computers because of the problems it might cause then there is something wrong - whether it's with the OS itself or just the general public opinion about the OS.

You got that

I am running Tiger comfortably on an old 500 MHz Pismo. This is a machine that was discontinued in January 2001, and it has been a rock for me in spite of me dropping it once and cracking the case on one corner.

Can anyone make a similar claim about a seven year old Micro$oft/Intel box ? Linux/Intel, possibly, but not Micro$oft.
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"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

Sorry, Ygor...

My Sony Vaio is seven years old. It was originally ME but I installed XP also. I didn't want to upgrade the bios when I installed XP, otherwise it would probably be more convenient. I have to admit that upgrading the bios is a problem--I'm afraid I'll mess it up. I could always take it to my computer guy and let him do it, but it's not really necessary. It's working fine with two systems.

I'm taking it to a client's office today and am very happy with it still, and if I would upgrade the bios would probably be happier.

I guess I'm waiting for a really small computer to carry around, like the HTC Shift. I've realized that I don't really need a laptop too often but I'd love to have a computer that would fit in my purse. And run Windows and Word and Excel and Outlook. And other Windows software. Not all business software works on Macs--like QuickBooks, which has a Mac version but which is way behind the Windows version in function. I don't know if there's any professional tax software that works on Macs, but I doubt it.

But until something like the Shift is available, and reasonable priced, my Vaio is great. I just don't use it too much because I prefer a desktop. But when I need it, it's ready.

--Glenda

Your loss, not mine.

Not all business software works on Macs

A lot of it does not work (very well) on a PC these days.

If you are happy with what you have, great.

But you are straying from the original conversation.

Have you tried Vista on your Vaio ?
Are you able to ?
Are you willing to ?

-----------------------------------
"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

arrogance is just ignorance with a new haircut.

arrogance is just ignorance with a new haircut.

just a little fyi.

and it takes a great deal of arrogance/ignorance to describe someone whose needs are met by what they have as a "loss".

---
Levenger stole ALL of my money, but they left me all these nice, shiny organizational tools.

“It's only arrogance if you're wrong”

--anonymous quote

:D
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"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

*eyeroll*

Jeez, ygor. Can't you play nice?

--
Steff
[ blog | photos ]

I am playing nice

I am just doing some fun Micro$oft bashing

I am not getting personal about it.
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"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

Obviously we're not thinking on the same wavelength here. :)

I am all for Microsloth bashing. I really am. I've been a Unix geek since before Windows was around, and I hated MS-DOS too. But still. You can come across as a bit mean sometimes. I don't think you ARE mean, I'm just saying you can seem that way occasionally.

--
Steff
[ blog | photos ]

I am not mean

I am blunt.

Synonyms: abrupt, bluff, brief, brusque, candid, crusty, curt, explicit, forthright, frank, matter-of-fact, outspoken, plain-spoken, snappy, trenchant, unceremonious, unpolished
-----------------------------------
"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

LOL!!! there is truth to

LOL!!!

there is truth to that too. for some reason i really feel this quote should be an LOLcat. :)
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Levenger stole ALL of my money, but they left me all these nice, shiny organizational tools.

Well, I was addressing your

Well, I was addressing your comment:

-----------
Can anyone make a similar claim about a seven year old Micro$oft/Intel box ? Linux/Intel, possibly, but not Micro$oft.
-----------

Not trying to be too picky, but you did ask.

I don't dislike Mac users or Macs. And I don't think most PC users feel too strongly about this subject--it's mostly Apple trying to pick at Windows in order to get more market share. That's what they have to do, just like the pizza companies pick at each other, or Pepsi vs Coke. Eventually Apple will get enough users to be a good target for hackers and identity thieves, and we may see some problems. I suspect that Mac users have a false sense of security, because the OS hasn't been attacked enough to really be tested.

I really enjoy the commercials and look forward to seeing them, but they are commercials and not the Gospel from on high.

And, Ygor, your dynamic templates are fantastic and your posts are always interesting and/or entertaining, so please don't think I'm attacking you. I know you're not mean. Or maybe you haven't drawn your main guns yet.

My PCs are just tools for business and communication and entertainment, and I'm happy with them. I'm not upgrading the old ones to Vista, partly because they don't have dual processors, but also because they're working fine the way they are. And I'm not going to be swung around on a chain by the big corporations, or at least they'll have to do more to push my buttons.

By the way, are you going to upgrade that seven-year old system to Leopard?

--Glenda

Correcting the facts

I suspect that Mac users have a false sense of security, because the OS hasn't been attacked enough to really be tested.

Sorry but that's factually incorrect. The part of Mac OS X that would need to be attacked, i.e the portion that deals with Internet connections, user authentication, and device handling, has been tested throughly. Unlike Microsoft with their program loader to which they grafted a colourful presentation, Mac OS X is built atop a long-standing and widely installed and fiercely tested operating system called FreeBSD.

There is one known trojan for Mac OS X in the wild. It proports to be an upgrade to video codecs and is being distributed via p0rn sites. Because of the resriction within Mac OS X a user stupid enough to download the trojan file has to be complict to the installation by providing their root account system password. (A trojan that started out on Windoze.) Symantec (aka Norton) rate this Mac trojan as having very low spread in their words 0 to 49 infections.

I'm a retired computing scientist by the way who amongst other professional activities modified real multi-user operating systems for many years.

Hey Glenda...

You have no need to apologize. Your comments are to the point and add to the excellent spirit of the discussion.

Yes, I did ask, and you answered. Wonderful. Really. No sarcasm.

I am glad you like my templates.

I stand by my "go with what works for you" statement.

As far as Leopard on my Pismo, others have tried and report limited success. I may try for the technical amusement, but it is not "Officially Supported", so I am on my own if I try. If I do at all, it would be from an external drive so that I can flip back to Tiger. As you say about your machine, it runs just great as is.

Keep up the discussions. We can disagree as long as we stay polite about it. If we all had the same opinion, it would get boring real quick.
-----------------------------------
"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

yeah quickbooks on mac is

yeah quickbooks on mac is really a joke. it sucks really. and i dont see any news of an upcoming update.

---
Levenger stole ALL of my money, but they left me all these nice, shiny organizational tools.

GNUcash

Perhaps not yet as comprehensive as Quickbooks but there is GNUcash. Imports QIF format. But the real benefit is that it doesn't appear on the accounts it is keeping because it's open source. Works on most platforms too; including Windoze. Also if you can program then you can make it do what you want not what Intuit want you to buy.

Hurrah for Open Source

There's always something Gnu

:)
-----------------------------------
"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

eeePC

I've realized that I don't really need a laptop too often but I'd love to have a computer that would fit in my purse. And run Windows and Word and Excel and Outlook.

Have you looked into the eeePC. I forget what site I saw this (Amazon?), but probably the first three user comments were from ladies who were excited that it fits in their purse. :-)

Granted, it comes with a distro of Linux, but I believe that you can buy a special, cheap version of XP that will run on this guy. It might be worth looking into if you want a pursable (sic) computer.

-Jon

It does look good, and the price is right..

I looked it up on Amazon and now I want one, especially since the HTC Shift looks to be much more expensive. Thanks for the pointer! Unfortunately it's not available right now--it would make a great Christmas gift to self! I'll keep an eye out for it.

--Glenda

I was reserving my judgement for a few weeks

I'm the go-to person for computer woes in my department and I was waiting to see how the new Vista laptop used by the sessional instructors would fare before passing judgement on it. After two weeks, it's already out for the count. I will be sending it out to ITS to get it downgraded to XP tomorrow.

"It's better to be a pirate than to join the Navy." -- Steve Jobs

I'm okay with Vista. No major complaints.

I got a new, nifty laptop in late June of this year. Yup, it came with Vista. My initial plan once I had it was to just strip it and put XP on it, but I soon discovered that's not really possible, since all of the hardware drivers are Vista specific. Grrr. So, I just decided to deal with it. This computer was a gift from a dear friend, and it's a really high performance one, too. I was saving for a MacBook Pro...but she didn't know that.

I've only come across a couple of annoyances that I expected regarding software compatibility. Most of those have been solved by running the applications in "legacy mode". Other than that, I haven't had a single problem...and I'm pleasantly surprised. I've run hours of streaming video on it through a wi-fi connection, done projector presentations and hauled it everywhere. Of course...I'm using as little MS software as I can on the thing, too. I use Thunderbird, Firefox, Open Office, etc. All of it works fine, and I don't have any complaints.

And even though Vista isn't responsible, the speakers on this laptop are killer. I've never heard such great speakers on a laptop before. I have a hearing loss, and I still have to keep the volume down to about 40% on the thing. I've just set aside my MacBook Pro money for later.

Vista compatability

I am shopping around for a new computer and most only come with Vista. After reading a number of articles and posts about the horror of Vista, I spoke with our IT person at work (after getting an explanation from the sales rep at Dell) and he confirmed what I was told -- that the reason some people have problems with Vista is that 1) they try to run it with 1G of memory; 2) that not all software is Vista-compatible; 3) Microsoft will not be supporting MS XP as of January 2008. I won't repeat what I said to both the Dell rep and my IT person (strong words but not rude). I am currently calling all of the software companies who created the programs I want to put on my new computer to find out their compatibility or if they have upgrades. A couple told me that they had problems in the beginning but that Vista created patches that make compatibility possible.

Has anyone else had this experience? TIA

Amelia

Vista

I found that most of my software works correctly.

That said, it's not problem-free. I recently had to do a system-restore hen Vista didn't like the anti-virus I had installed. Which led to my email not getting through...

Overall, I like the navigation of Vista. I don't like the rapid and forced changeover. A coworker is looking to buy a new home computer, and is searching for one that comes with XP.

Unfortunately for me, the most important software I need to use recently went out of business, and so doesn't have Vista updates. Unless MS comes out with a patch that randomly makes it all work together, I'm going to be forced to shell out $3k for new software! Not happy here, but victim of coincidence.

Mac:)

Mac, Amelia. Mac Mac Mac Mac Mac. Apple. :)

Other than that, I have no suggestions, except to put XP on the thing. I believe there is a downgrade option from Vista to XP which I would investigate. I'm not sure how that's working, 'cause I heard that XP won't be supported in the new year, but apparently there is a downgrade option and XP worked pretty well, so maybe it's o.k. if it's not supported. But I pretty well just made that up. Thoughts?

Mac.

Steve Sharam
www.whenrealityknocks.com

Not so easy

Apparently it's not easy to downgrade on a new machine from Vista to XP. The drivers in those new machines are Vista-specific, and they don't all take kindly to the change.

I've been talking to our IT person about ditching MS altogether and running Linux...

Wow, that got a lot of response

Wow, that certainly got a lot of response. Guess I hit a nerve there. Since I didn't do an article this week, I'll just throw this comment out there for discussion, see if anyone has any strong feelings about it: I'd say that Linux and Windows Vista are pretty well the same. Comments?

:D

Steve Sharam
www.whenrealityknocks.com

Yes and No

As a Mac-user with only a smattering of knowledge of Windows (from helping my Windows-using friends get their Windoze boxes running after they mucked them up--yes, I've gotten them running again), and who has dabbled quite a bit in Linux, and is quite capable with installing Unix apps on his own mac, including compiling apps from the command-line on his own (including both Aqua and X11 versions of Firefox 3), allow me to spout my wisdom. ;-)

(and yes, take it with several salt-lick blocks, not just a grain of salt)

In some ways Linux and Windows are similar--certainly on the surface. This is in comparison to the Mac OS. On the Mac, a typical app comes entirely self-contained. Any and all dependencies are wrapped into the application bundle (inf fact, on some apps, if you open them, you will see the same folder structure you see in a typical /usr/ folder on a Linux distro). While this increases file size, it decreases complexity for the consumer. You want to install the app? Drag it to your Applications folder. Want to uninstall it? Drag it to the trash--you can, if you want, also delete its prefs, which are generally clearly named. Some apps also add other files in your library, but it is typically easy to do a search, or even browse the Library folder structure to find the files.

However, on Windows and Linux, an app insinuates itself into the system in a many-tentacled manner, utilizing many system libraries, and often adding its own. On Linux, at least (don't know about windows), an app may depend on a version of a library that is different/incompatible with other apps on your system. Now, sometimes, you can work around this, but in the end, and this is where Linux shines over Windows, there are ways to not have to worry about this--but there are tradeoffs. And this is where Linux is _different_ from Windows.

Linux typically comes in "distributions" or distros. Yes, you could "roll your own" but why? A distro typically comes with a library of software. It isn't all loaded, but is available in software repositries. These software repositries are accassible from the command line, or more frequently, via graphical applications. You can browse these smorgasbords of software, picking and choosing what you will. When ready, you "check out" and the software now does all the checking for you, figuring out what dependencies will need to be installed, and making sure all the ugly stuff is done for you. Whereupon, it installs everything for you.

At this point, life is beautiful. None of that ugly Windows mess. However.... Suppose you decide you want to try the newest beta of Firefox 3--no can do. Because of those ugly dependencies, you had better know what you are doing--or don't do it. The only down side of Linux is that you are dependent upon the repository for your software--sure, you can download and install, or even compile your own, but once you start that, you are very much on your own.

However, the good side is that the larger distros all seem to have very capable user communities, which are capable of helping even with the most esoteric of problems. I've only browsed the Ubuntu, Fedora and Yellow Dog Linux forums, but all have been very helpful in solving problems. So, IMO, in that respect also, Linux outshines Windows. ;-)

Last area where Windows=Linux is the area of drivers. Lots of problems and issues with drivers on both. The good side from the Linux perspective is that manufacturers of hardware are finally starting to recognize the existence of Linux, and provide drivers--but still, not everybody has--printers are an issue, as are unusual misc. cards and video cards. It is best to build a box with Linux in mind.

All that said, I do not think it's fair to Linux to say it is just like Windows. In some ways, Linux has yet to "come of age" but boy, is it close! It is also based on a different philosophy than Windows. This philosophy is both its greatest strength and weakness--that of community. My concern for Linux is that as it becomes more mainstream, the "community" aspect will fall apart, as more and more "take" and fewer and fewer "give back" and worse, fewer of the takers say a simple "thank you". My semi-prediction is that those who give the most will retreat to the smaller distros, leaving the larger ones to turn to more commercial aspects to make it all work. But we shall see how it all goes. ;-)

Them's my prognostications and thoughts... ...for what they're worth.

-Jon

Thank you

For your long and informative post. It fills in a few gaps I didn't know, and pulls together what I've already learned about it.

I truly did consider a Mac when I bought my last computer, but I have a number of software packages that tie me to Windows (for now) including custom digitizing embroidery software. Since I already had paid for the _extremely_ expensive software, I decided to stick with it. Then the software company went under (or sold out, not sure which. They had the best complete package out there.)

Next time I'll probably go Mac.

Heh.

Trying to rile people up now, are you? ;P

--
Steff
[ blog | photos ]

Who?

Moi? *blink, blink*

Steve Sharam
www.whenrealityknocks.com

"Linux and Windows Vista are pretty well the same" -- H**L No !

The biggest difference, IMHO, is that while they can both be very hard to use, Linux is solid and stable while WinDoze is anything but.
Mac OS X has been described in multiple reviews as "User Friendly Unix"

"Mac OS X -- because making Unix user friendly was easier than fixing Windows"

Linux is, sadly, not terribly user-friendly, but it is solid and reliable.

On the other hand, I agree that it appears Steve is trolling :)
-----------------------------------
"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

Steve? Trolling? Never!

Nice try, though.

I'm impressed with the strides that the Linux community has made towards usability and interfaces over just the past two or three years. Running a desktop like Gnome or KDE (another potential troll topic, btw!) makes it seem familiar to those used to a commercial operating system. My boss has shoulder-surfed while I'm working on some project or another, and it's usually not until 10 or 15 minutes in that he says something like "Oh! This isn't Excel, is it?" Nope, Open Office, running on OpenSuSE 10.2. Distributions like Ubuntu seek to make the experience even more painless, and I'd say that this is at the point of passing my Mom Test (could my mother use it without me talking her through it over the phone.)

I live in all three words -- Linux and XP at work, OS X at home. It always boils down to what you find works best for the job you like to do, and how much time/effort/money you're willing to put into it to work. Personally, I find the Unix tool set most useful to my work, so even when I'm on XP, I'm usually living in a Cygwin process. The low TCO of Linux is a convenient benefit.

Ubuntu + Dad = Win

I set my father up with Ubuntu on his laptop, and he rarely has any problems. He doesn't do anything intense with it -- just email, the web, and word processing -- but he was able to install it himself with no problems. And he feels much happier now that he's free of Microsoft products.

If my dad can run Ubuntu, anybody can...

--
Steff
[ blog | photos ]

I'd say that Linux and

I'd say that Linux and Windows Vista are pretty well the same. Comments?

There's a vast difference between Linux and Vista. It brings me in mind of the parable of the house built on the rock and the house built on the sand.

Vista may be all glitz and glamour (more like goo and gross IMO) but it has no real foundation. Linux may lack the glitz and glamour --- though that is starting to appear with Ubuntu and other desktop distributions --- but it has a solid foundation. Personally I'd always take solid foundations.

Or of you don't like that metaphor then Vista is a Ford Edsel and Linux a Porsche 911 GT3.

Ah yes, but

Ah yes, but, have you have the parable of the man who drove his Porsche on sand? Uh? Think about it.

Steve Sharam
www.whenrealityknocks.com

Ah no, but ...

As it happens the BBC TV show "Top Gear", which was recently awarded an Emmy for Best Unscripted Show, which by the way the presenters learned about while writing ... the script, often does drive Porsches on sand and in the season for which they won the Emmy drove one around Iceland on the fine volcanic tilthe normally used as an alternative to machine oil. And in one spectular episode drove a quad bike across a cold Icelandic lake. Doesn't need thinking about. ;-)

Same? You bet.

I'll bite: they are functionally the same, at least today in (almost) 2008.

I spend 90% of my time using a browser. If I'm using Firefox on Windows vs Firefox on Mac os X vs Firefox on Linux, what's the difference? I can install the same extensions and, in my case, even sync my bookmarks across the three. Because I do run all three: I run Mac OS X and Ubuntu on my Macbook and I use XP in my office on campus. All three use Firefox and the experience is virtually identical. What's the big deal?

There is one reason why I stick with Macs for my personal computers, and that's a couple of applications that I have come to love and rely upon (DEVONthink, in case you're wondering, together with Scrivener and Mellel and Bookends, it makes my dissertation happy). If I could find applications of equivalent quality on Linux, I'd jump ship immediately. Sadly, what I've found as replacements are only sad reflections of the original applications. I suspect that will change in the next few years.

Linux is not without frustration, but neither is any other operating system. And though I've used Apple products heavily and exclusively since 1981 (yes, I my Mac cred extends back before there were Macs, and I have never purchased a Windows machine, ever), the rate of improvement in the Linux user experience (and the explosion in viable web applications) leads me to suspect that my next purchase in 2009 or 2010 will likely run Linux primarily.

The same? Of course they ...

Linux and Windows (of any variety) are the same as much as a pocket diary is the same as a planner. Surface features (in your example) such as a browser can make it look that they are identical but the moment one lifs the hood --- and as a computing scientist I've had plenty of opportunity to lift the hood on both --- they are so very very different; much like anyone who has used a pocket diary and then switches to a planner knows that the two things are so diametrically opposed.

Overstatement alert!

I respectfully disagree. A pocket diary is vastly limited in comparison to the planner: less flexible, less spacious, and less powerful. But you can't say the same thing about Windows vs Linux. They feel different, and one is more stable, but there is nothing you can program in one that you can't program in the other. Nothing.

I've got cred, too. I rolled my first Linux kernel from a slackware distro in 1997-ish, and I still run it today (no, not the same kernel; I still run Linux). I understand how they work, but philosophical differences between Windows and Linux are like the differences between a Franklin-Covey planner and a D*I*Y Planner: one is closed-source and prettified (Look: motivational quotes! Look: bright colored buttons!) and the other is open and free. But with enough money, you can buy any addition you want to a Franklin-Covey system. It'll cost you, and you're stuck with the designs that FC provides, but you're still getting the same basic tools and templates you'll get from DIYP.

You can stay away from Windows because it crashes, or because you hate MS, or because you think it's ugly and you'd be right about all three. But to say that it isn't powerful enough or that the developer tools are insufficient is absurd.

You forgot one

You can stay away from Windows because it crashes, or because you hate MS, or because you think it's ugly and you'd be right about all three. But to say that it isn't powerful enough or that the developer tools are insufficient is absurd.

You forgot the best reason to stay away from Windoze: it's security is fundamentally broken. What am I saying! Windows doesn't have any security. Hence Norton, McAfee, AVAST, AVG, ZoneAlarm, etc etc all trying to patch up the gaping holes in the facade.

I think you missed his point...

He wasn't comparing Windows to Linux, but _both_ to OS X. ;-)

That means that both are the pocket diary to Mac OS X's full-feature planner. :-D

In this, I believe he is closer to the truth. Although I think your analogy is more correct in all points.

However, when it comes right down to it, each OS reflects the type of person that is attracted to it--people of a certain sort are attracted to each OS, and their devopment efforts reflect this, both because such developers tend to develop for their preferred platform, but also because apps that don't reflect the "ideals" of the particular platform, probably won't long survive.

A couple examples from your own experience. The truth is, Devon and Scrivener are both examples of the MacOS-think. Mac users tend to like their apps to be powerful, but simple, and tend to prefer simple over power, especially if by power they give up simplicity.

Some other excellent examples are the software by companies like Nisus, BeLight, Devon's efforts across the board. Oh, and the Apple apps like iWork or iLife. iTunes would be the universally used example, although I have no idea how iTunes works on Windows.

As to web apps, etc. I suppose that if one spends 90% or more of his time in a web browser, then the OS would seem insignificant--until you come to that 10% that you need your OS, like in your case, with Devon and Scrivener. That's what separates the men from the boys (pardon the expression) in OSs. However, in my case, I do relatively little in my browser, and find the software I use to be very critical. I could not do what I do as easily and as well as I do it on Windows or Linux. Everybody I know uses Windows, and I have known for years that it would never meet my needs (besides, I hate "fixing" my computer, and would rather simply work), however, this past spring, I discovered Ubuntu for the PowerPC, so decided to try to use Linux to do what I need. I was very happily surprised with how Ubuntu worked, but found it a tiny bit lacking, so tried a few more distributions, but, in the end, the more I tried to work with Linux, the more I found it lacking the tools I need, or providing sub-standard counterparts (for instance, compare Impress to Keynote--sorry! no comparison!!!) So, for me, until Linux can offer the same level and quality of experience, it cannot and will not replace OS X--although I'm still rooting for it. ;-)

(BTW, I have massively "enabled" my X11 side of OS X, and have a complete distro's-worth of software and can run entirely in KDE or Gnome--which is cool.)

-Jon

Well

I am learning to love my Lamy Vista. Very much.

Hihihi.

"It's better to be a pirate than to join the Navy." -- Steve Jobs

THAT Vista I recommend

but then who uses a fountain pen on their computer ?
-----------------------------------
"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

Same person

who uses white-out on the screen to fix mistakes

:P

Vista Ink Everywhere

I love my Vista pen. Sadly I have written on many surfaces not intended for ink while I've had that and other pens in my hand. I fear for my nibs. I don't think I've gotten the computer screen yet, but the keyboard has fallen victim a few times.

BTW, for a while the managers at work kept using the term "color in the white space." I got pretty excited thinking we would be allowed to color the walls, but apparently they meant something else. I bet the Vista would work well for wall drawings.

LisaPT
My Blog

What do we have here? A

What do we have here? A incredible site with plenty of cool tools and then......DRUMS.... a FUD article about Windows Vista!?

Meh!! Did he knows about the internal management evolutions like possibility to control which drivers load or not.

Did the author hear about Active Directory and changes on Vista about that?

I don't think so.

And about your friend, all I can say is that his computer hardware sux or don't have the right drivers.

People keep blaming SOs when, often, the real issue is about drivers (responsibility of hardware manufactures) or cheap hardware (mainly PSUs, memory not certified to work with the motherboard, cheap motherboards, cheap wi-fi cards, etc, etc).

I remember working on a Dell with Windows XP. That was sloooow out of the box. Then I downloaded an updated IDE driver from Intel's website then i got a acceptable machine to work with.

My mom uses Vista every day and that "annoying popups" NEVER appear when she is on the computer. That popups only appear when I (the IT guy) am installing programs etc....

If you are an IT guy and know what you are doing, you can disable that "annoying popups".

Oh yeah! And aesthetics matter, even for an "IT guy" like me.

Only really annoying issues are the "start menu" and the deploy of things on Control Panel (Microsof, please, rearrange the Control Panel tools and options) . Aside from that, Vista performs well, looks great and have important internal (hidden from most of users) innovations.

Excuse my poor English. Not my native language.

Ditto!

So, what do you use ?

Inquiring minds want to know.
You say your mom uses Vista, but you never tell us what you use.

My wife uses a Mac. So do my kids. If my mom was still around, so would she.
-----------------------------------
"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

In the tradition

... a FUD article ...

Ah but that's so in the Microsoft tradition. Microsoft uses FUD tactics themselves. Check out their Halloween Documents. MickeySoft have even tried using the old IBM slogan of "no one ever got fired for buying ...", to which the appropriate response is "well they should have been".

Nice link

I had almost forgotten about that collection of Microsoft-damning materials.
I enjoyed reading them again.
-----------------------------------
"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

Yes, but

FUD maybe, but this, I don't think, qualifies. A FUD, in my understanding, disseminates inaccurate information, whereas saying that Vista stinks, well, that seems pretty accurate to me.

Now, admittedly, I'm biased because I wrote the post, and I don't use a Windoze machine, except under protest, but I did sell them for a while and that was quite enough for me. No, I don't use Vista, but there are good reasons for that:P

Steve Sharam
www.whenrealityknocks.com

Another nail in the coffin / log on the fire...

PC World calls Vista The #1 Tech Disappointment of 2007

"When the fastest Vista notebook PC World has ever tested is an Apple MacBook Pro, there's something deeply wrong with the universe."

'Nuff said.

-----------------------------------
"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

And the fun continues...

Britain Advises Against Vista, Office 2007 for Schools

And there are new Get-A-Mac ads
-----------------------------------
"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

He heh

:P

Steve Sharam
www.whenrealityknocks.com

office 2007 bad experience

Oh I don't know much about Vista...
But I do know that office 2007 has caused me a lot of hassle at work as nothing is compatible. I try printing labels for envelopes and it didn't even work.
I do like the OneNote 2007 though. That's one heck of an app.

Duc Ly

Gloat, gloat, gloat...

Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-haaaaaa !!
Slashdot: Microsoft Pulls Vista SP1 Update
>:D
-----------------------------------
"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)