paper type for hPDA

Hi!

I'm starting making my 1st hPDA after using Palm Pilot since '96.

Wasn't sure whether to buy guillotine and cut 3y5 cards printed on A4 paper with my bw Kyocera laser printer
or to buy some cheap ink-jet Canon printer.

I can get PIXMA MP180 for the same price as eg. GBC CLASSICCUT CL 200, but considering that Canon printer will
be used just for printing index cards (scanner quality is quite poor according to reviews and ink-cartridges
are expensive), I'm leaning towards former solution - printing on A4 & cutting - and wonder which paper type
you recommend for hPDA cards?

afaik, 'standard' is around 200g/m2 (110 pounds), but I'd like some experiences from the user preparing their
hPDA by cutting A4 paper?

Sincerely,
Gour

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a thought

Since you are using A4, you could consider doing what I do. I like to cut down my A4 paper to 8 pieces, otherwise known as A7. You get 8 pieces of paper from an A4 with no waste. The size is about an inch shorter (approx 24mm) and only slightly narrower than a 3x5 card. The best part is that this size is the size of the A4 pocketmod (www.pocketmod.com or a newer mod, www.repocketmod.com)

Somebody even created some templates, and posted them here:
LINK

And I almost forgot, but I actually posted a comparison photo of the two sizes (3x5 and A7) here on this site a while ago. Here's a link to that image:
LINK

You might also find a way to easily print 8-up from your eMacs setup. ;-)

-Jon

Since you are using A4, you

Since you are using A4, you could consider doing what I do. I like to cut down my A4 paper to 8 pieces, otherwise known as A7. You get 8 pieces of paper from an A4 with no waste. The size is about an inch shorter (approx 24mm) and only slightly narrower than a 3x5 card.

This is good idea indeed.

I'm still deciding whether to go with the Canon Pixma printer which can print direcetly to 3x5 cards or to cut A4.

The dilemma is due to the fact that my laser can print only up to 160g/m2 paper type and I've to check is it thick enough for
my needs. (Index card are, afaik, usually >200g/m2).

What kind of paper you use?

Somebody even created some templates, and posted them here:

Too bad there is no A7 version of D*I*Y Hipster, i.e. one suited for Ax users :-(

You might also find a way to easily print 8-up from your eMacs setup. ;-)

Well, I'm on Linux, but I'm sure 8-up is possible, although never did more than 4-up ;)

Sincerely,
Gour

A7 version of D*I*Y Hipster - Try DYNAMIC !!

http://www.diyplanner.com/templates/dynamic
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"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

LInux-only

Hi!

Thanks for reply, but here I'm running Linux-only machines.

Sincerely,
Gour

Use the Source, Luke !!

It is there.
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"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

Found source

Hey!

That's cool and it works!

Did not scroll down the screenshots and therefore did not see the sources :-(

Maybe you can include Linux shots ;)

Sincerely,
Gour

No, that's why the source is there

Distributing a Linux binary is a headache. better to distribute source and you build your own.
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"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

Put a note that it builds on Linux

Distributing a Linux binary is a headache. better to distribute source and you build your own.

Right, but the whole post does not mention it runs on Linux :-(

Near the shots it is written:

This software runs on both Windows and Mac OS X. Here's a shot of the Mac version:

so, maybe, you can just add a short note: software can be built on Linux from the source using QT lib.

That's all ;)

Sincerely,
Gour

Done

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"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

A7 8-up possible?

Hi!

Is it possible to make A7 dynamic template and to print it as 8-up (my printer cannot print A7 directly)?

Sincerely,
Gour

Not sure, but...

I don't know if you can do all this on your Linux box, but if you can print to pdf, and you have Java, you should be able to print your templates to pdf, and use Multivalent to "impose" the result into an 8-up file. Not so simple as straight printing, but it should work.
Multivalent & imposition

Oops, no links on that page. Here's the Tools page with links:
Multivalent Tools

-Jon

how to produce 8-page format

Hi!

Thank you for reply.

I don't know if you can do all this on your Linux box, but if you can print to pdf, and you have Java, you should be able to print your templates to pdf, and use Multivalent to "impose" the result into an 8-up file. Not so simple as straight printing, but it should work.

I can print file to pdf, but the problem is that 'dynamic' template produces 1-page in eg. A7 format, but I'd need to produce 8-page document of A7 format.

Tried with Multivalent tool and there is no ready 8-up option.

The solution could be to use pdf2ps program and then I could get desired outcome with psnup -nup 8, but one
needs to have 8-page source document in order to put all of them onto one page.

Maybe I'm tired, but at the moment, I cannot think about easy way to get 8-page A7 document via 'template' program or I'm missing some obvious feature.

Any hint?

Sincerely,
Gour

Tried with Multivalent -- you did not try hard enough

RTFI -- http://multivalent.sourceforge.net/Tools/pdf/Impose.html -- specifically the dimensions and layout options and do not forget the paper size option. Holler if you want more specific help on this. Multivalent is a great tool.
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"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

I'ts still too hard...

Hi!

If you read the 1st sentence on the link, you'll see:

Imposition arranges one or more existing pages onto another page.

So, the 'problem' is that 'template' program for eg. DIY Notes - v1.0 - One Page at a Time
creates one page only and therefore there is not possible to "arrange them onto another page".

I was using psnup which works on PS files many years ago and was doing booklet printing, so it's not that I'm totally unfamiliar with Multivalant's Impose feature(s), but my feature request for 'dynamic templates' is to
be able to generate required number of pages.

For instance, if I need to print 32 A7 format forms, then by choosing the 32 pages in template dialog, I'd get
32 pdf file in A7 format and by using impose/psnup, it would be easy to re-arrange them into 4 A4 pages with (altogether) 32 forms.

If there is already a simple way to achieve the outcome described above, I'm more than enthusiastic to hear about it and accept my present stupidity/inability to know about it :-)

Sincerely,
Gour

aha....

I see your problem. It's to merge multiple pdf files into one file first, and _then_ impose them....

hm.... I thought there was a tool, pdftool, that could do that, but my googling isn't turning up what I was looking for. I think it was Java or maybe perl, but it could combine pdf files, as well as other things, but I'm not finding it now....

Closest I could get was this:
PDF Tools

But it looks to be Windows? It does link the java tool it's based on, though. Maybe this is a place to start.

However, I'm sure there is some tool on Linux that can either do both functions or you could combine them, maybe via scripting.

On my Mac, I have PDFLab that is great for combining and splitting pdf files, and CocoaBooklet makes wonderful booklets (sadly only two sizes--2-up and 4-up), and tools for pocketmod-type files... So it's hard for me to consider using *nix tools with these in hand. In fact, it is tools like this that keep me on my Mac. Little things that just work so well, and for which I have yet to find equivalents. sigh. (Yes, I like Linux)

Well, I hope to get you going here, in any case. I'll keep looking.

-Jon

impose problem

I see your problem. It's to merge multiple pdf files into one file first, and _then_ impose them....

Right.

However, I'm sure there is some tool on Linux that can either do both functions or you could combine them, maybe via scripting.

I've found something...here is the article and I tried the example

gs -dBATCH -dNOPAUSE -q -sDEVICE=pdfwrite -sOutputFile=finished.pdf file1.pdf file2.pdf ...file8.pdf

and now I can get 8-page pdf document consisting of A7 format :-)

The remaining problem is imposing...neither Multivalent tool nor pdfnup from pdfjam package do not produce required page, i.e. the resulting A7 forms imposed on A7 page are scaled down :-(

I'll continue playing and will try with psnup 'cause once you have pdf, it's easy to get ps with pdf2ps.

Well, I hope to get you going here, in any case. I'll keep looking.

Thank you for all the help which I get in this (quite long) thread ;)

Sincerely,
Gour

Let me see if I understand...

You want eight A7 size pages blocked up into a single A4 size to print, right ?
That would be, I believe, four columns of two rows of portrait oriented A7 onto a landscape oriented A4.

Use the dynamic templates and make some A7 pages -- duplicate if you want multiple copies of the same page.
Then use Multivalent's Merge to make a single, 8 page document.

Now for the BFM (Black Magic !)
Here is your MultiValent Impose command:

java tool.pdf.Impose -dim 4x2 -paper 210×297mm the-name-of-your-8-page-file.pdf
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"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

His problem...

...I believe was that the A7 pdfs he merged/imposed are actually _reduced_ in size once imposed, thus making them even smaller.... That would be awkward at that size... And I wouldn't know how to answer that one...

-Jon

It should not.

Look here LINK at what I did with Multivalent. I generated micro-PDA size and then made a manu-up letter size page out of them.
I will tinker when I get home.
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"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

that's the problem

...I believe was that the A7 pdfs he merged/imposed are actually _reduced_ in size once imposed, thus making them even smaller.... That would be awkward at that size...

Right, Impose tool, reduces A7 in size making them unusable.

So, DIY Templates are still not usable for me attempting to save some trees by using 8 A7 on A4 :-(

Sincerely,
Gour

no luck

Hello!

Excuse me for late reply..-I had deadline for some video-project to finish and it took longer than expected (with cinelerra)...

You want eight A7 size pages blocked up into a single A4 size to print, right ?
That would be, I believe, four columns of two rows of portrait oriented A7 onto a landscape oriented A4.

Exactly!

Now for the BFM (Black Magic !)
Here is your MultiValent Impose command:

java tool.pdf.Impose -dim 4x2 -paper 210×297mm the-name-of-your-8-page-file.pdf

I tried, but no luck.

Pls. try for yourself - here is my 8-age A7 pdf sample.

Let me know if you can get it ;)

Sincerely,
Gour

Another tool in the Multivalent suite is "Merge"

http://multivalent.sourceforge.net/Tools/pdf/Merge.html
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"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)

paper...

What kind of paper you use?

I'm gonna disappoint you, but I use standard 80 or 90g paper. Worse, it's typically scrap that I've printed on one side already. I typically cut down to A7, and use the blank side for writing on. I also use the blank side for papermods. In the end, I prefer the plain paper to cards. I do have a stash of 3x5s I keep in my back pocket in a duct tape wallet I made, but otherwise, it's plain paper for me. :-)

Too bad there is no A7 version of D*I*Y Hipster, i.e. one suited for Ax users :-(

My experience with the DiYP hipster templates is that they are a bit crowded. The templates I pointed to, on the other hand, are very clean and open--designed for the extra small size of A7... Something to consider when looking for templates. :-)

I suspected you were using Linux, with eMacs, but one never knows. There is a strong contingent of OS X emacs users--I'm not one of them, unfortunately. I've never been able to get into it or VIM--though I tried (loved WordStar back in the day...). Maybe I'm just too visual, but I like TextMate and Nisus for my text needs...

-Jon

Paper weights

Hi.

For recurring or important tasks, I use 'cover stock' cut down to the right size. This is 67lb, which is a bit lighter than the stock you're talking about. I cut down from letter size, being in the states, but the theory still works for A4. I get 5 3x5s out of one sheet of letter.

For throw-away notes like voicemail messages or common one-time reminders, I use 24lb paper cut down to the right size. This is slightly heavier than standard copy paper, but I like this stuff because it's whiter and smoother than the regular paper. It also works well with circa discs, which I use for my calendar, contacts, and passwords.

Personally, I love bright colors, so the cover stock I buy is nice, bright stock (Astrobrights brand). Cutting it down instead of buying the pre-printed stuff is cheaper, and I can print my lines portrait instead of the standard landscape if I wish.

I have a rotary cutter at the moment, which works fine, but I want one with a paper guide, so I've wished for a guillotine-with-guide for Christmas. :) That will give me steadier, more repeatable cuts faster and with less effort. The guillotine *might* cut a larger stack of paper at once, but that's just a bonus if it works out. I don't mind cutting 5-10 sheets at a time, which is all my rotary can handle.

My HP laser printer will print on 3x5 size, but only from the paper tray, not the manual feed tray. So I do a lot of paper-swapping when it's print time. I print my calendar out once a month and hand-write my task lists. I do find, though, that the ink doesn't stick as well to heavy paper--for shaded areas, anyway. Black seems fine, but gray shades can rub off slightly, which annoys me. I haven't had an inkjet in many years.

shris

Paper weight

Hi chris!

For recurring or important tasks, I use 'cover stock' cut down to the right size. This is 67lb, which is a bit lighter than the stock you're talking about. I cut down from letter size, being in the states, but the theory still works for A4.

Thank you for the info.

My laser can do up to 163 g/m2, according to the specs, which means lighter than the 'standard', but I hope, still thick enough.

For throw-away notes like voicemail messages or common one-time reminders, I use 24lb paper cut down to the right size. This is slightly heavier than standard copy paper, but I like this stuff because it's whiter and smoother than the regular paper. It also works well with circa discs, which I use for my calendar, contacts, and passwords.

So, those category, i.e. 'throw-away' won't be a problem and one can get nice, even colored, paper.

I have a rotary cutter at the moment, which works fine, but I want one with a paper guide, so I've wished for a guillotine-with-guide for Christmas. :) That will give me steadier, more repeatable cuts faster and with less effort. The guillotine *might* cut a larger stack of paper at once, but that's just a bonus if it works out. I don't mind cutting 5-10 sheets at a time, which is all my rotary can handle.

I plan to buy GBC ClassicCut CL200 as a present to myself :-)

Anyway, thank you for your reply. It helped me to ditch ink-jet combination - it is stupid to buy MPD (I was thinking about
eg. Canon Pixma MP180) just to print index cards and spend fortune on ink cartridges, when I already have nice Kyocera FS920 PS printer.

Moreover, I'm sure that GBC device will last longer than Canon printer :-)

Sincerely,
Gour

Paper weight conversion

Remember, 110lb index stock is different than 110lb Cover Stock. The original paper weight, 200gsm paper/card (110lb index stock), is approximately 74lb Cover Stock, so you both actually use pretty similar card weight.

I find the whole thing very confusing, but use this chart, which seems to sort things out somewhat.

Right..

Hi.

Thanks for the chart. That helps with weight, but what I've been wanting (and not getting) is a measure of paper stiffness. :)

By this standard, the paper I favor for 'throw away' and circa is 90gsm, and the stuff I like for recurring or important stuff is more like 175. I have a few sheets of some heavier stuff, 110lb Card stock, but I can't tell from the chart what that equates to. Anyway, that stuff is extremely stiff and it's really not necessary to go that heavy unless you want to use that card every day for a year, all the time, and keep it in your back pocket unprotected..

The 175gsm is still light and flexible, but it's stiff enough to stand up in a card bleacher without flopping over. The 90gsm won't stand up portrait unless the bleacher has some curve to it. It wants to flop over. I use those in landscape mode, mostly.

If you don't stand your cards up in a bleacher at all--if you only flip through your deck in hand or lay them flat on the desk, then the thinner text-weight paper should be fine. The problem you have with most printers is the dimension, rather than the thickness.

Some printers won't allow pieces smaller than 3.5" x 5"--the wheels are too far apart to pick up the pieces. You need to check your manual to make sure the dimension you want is acceptable to your hardware. This is the real limiting factor to how small you can go.

shris

110lb Card stock

I think card is the same as index stock, so, on that assumption, it would be about 199.41 gsm
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"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin and Hobbes/Bill Waterson)